Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards • Hacker News Board

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#131

Post by nadavami » Wed, Oct 18, 2017, 2:36 PM UTC

stevenwoo wrote: post #53

tomcam wrote: post #49

I too have found this keyboard it to be a disaster. I made the mistake of buying two MacBooks as soon as the first 12" model was released, one for me and one for my wife, and my wife's keyboard had so many problems we took it in to Apple. All they could do was offered to swap out the keyboard for a mere $400. My wife refused, and the problem mysteriously solved itself. Meanwhile, mine "works", but the short key trave…

Where's a good place to find new old stock MacBooks?

I've always had good results with Apple's refurbished devices.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#132

Post by aquamo » Wed, Oct 18, 2017, 2:41 PM UTC

about 8 months into my experience with my 15" MBP 2016 I had the underbar-hyphen key stop working altogether. They replaced the key for me in the apple store without charging me. Glad I have apple care, I'm sure other keys will follow. Currently my right shift key is starting to get sticky feeling which was the precursor to the "-" key failing on me. I'm not impressed with the build quality considering the high cost of this machine $4000.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#133

Post by an_account » Wed, Oct 18, 2017, 2:42 PM UTC

kagamine wrote: post #42

DeRock wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A couple things: you don’t have to click volume and then move to the slider, you can just touch the volume button and begin sliding immediately and it will adjust relative to how you slide. Also, if you go into System Preferences—>Keyboard, you can customize the keys, including adding a dedicated mute button.

When users have to fiddle with settings to do the things they could do before without fiddling, what have you achieved? Apple used to be the UX good guys, now they are the devil in disguise.

You don’t have to fiddle. Just click the default visble one and drag

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#134

Post by audunw » Wed, Oct 18, 2017, 2:45 PM UTC

nrclark wrote: post #5

My work gave me one of the 2016 15" MBPs as my main computer, and the keyboard is horrible. My V key double-presses about half the time, and the rest of the keys are really hard to press down all the way. Some of the keys make a weird metal rattle when I press them. Typing on that wretched keyboard for more than an hour or so literally bruises my fingers. Since I do most of my day-to-day work at a dock with an extern…

> Who the hell decided that programmers don't need a functional ESC key or permanent function keys?

I'm still amazed that there are programmers that complain about this. As a programmer, I've avoided ESC and the function keys for years before the touchbar came out.

Apple has even had a built-in option in Mac OS to remap ESC to Caps Lock, for quite a while now. And considering how conservative Apple is when it comes to adding options, I think that says that I'm not alone.

The ESC/function key row is not suitable for ergonomic typing. It's simply to far away from home row. If that area is suitable for anything at all, it's for rare context-sensitive operations, so I think Apples idea was absolutely rational. Wether it's worth the cost is different discussion (for me, probably not).

The culture around keyboards is super weird if you ask me. You have whole subcultures around a near irrelevant thing like key-travel and mechanical switches (though I must admit there is a visceral satisfaction to clicking a really clicky keyswitch), yet people still stick to qwerty and typewriter-based physical layout. ErgoDox seems to be growing in popularity, so it might be changing.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#135

Post by aquamo » Wed, Oct 18, 2017, 2:46 PM UTC

threeseed wrote: post #41

nrclark wrote: post #5

My work gave me one of the 2016 15" MBPs as my main computer, and the keyboard is horrible. My V key double-presses about half the time, and the rest of the keys are really hard to press down all the way. Some of the keys make a weird metal rattle when I press them. Typing on that wretched keyboard for more than an hour or so literally bruises my fingers. Since I do most of my day-to-day work at a dock with an extern…

There is a functional Escape key. It's right there in the top left corner. I use it hundreds of times a day. It's definitely not as nice as a dedicated key but you get used to it. And if you want permanent function keys then just go to the Keyboard control panel and enable it.

This is subjective; I don't agree, I need tactile feedback so the ESC key is no more. Like many others, I have disabled the magic bar as much as I could because it occasionally got triggered if I just glanced a finger off of it accidentally.

As an emacs user, I do the following on this box:

[CAPSLOCK] -> CTRL [LEFT CTRL] -> ESC (just like an old HP 9000 workstation keyboard lol)

The above works for me.

While the keyboard is bad on this $4000 laptop; I do love the performance, battery life, and the screen. I would never buy another one though. I suspect I will be on my 2nd key replacement any day now.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#136

Post by mrgoldenbrown » Wed, Oct 18, 2017, 2:46 PM UTC

JoshMnem wrote: post #119

Try ThinkPad + Linux. Amazing environment for programming, $1,000+ cheaper than MBP, nice keyboards, better specs for the price, including several years of at-home next-day repair service.

I've found the "cheaper" part is situational. When I bought my Macbook Air, the comparable Thinkpad (X1 Carbon) was the same price, when I specced them the same.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#137

Post by kumarvvr » Wed, Oct 18, 2017, 2:51 PM UTC

slowmovintarget wrote: post #117

ux-app wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes I agree. I don't know how hardware teams with such a stellar track record as Apple have can make such awful decisions. The first time I used the new keyboard I thought that it was broken in some way (how is a shorter key travel a better thing?), and the touch bar is just stupid. I've seen people use them and the awkward way they have to stop what they're looking doing, orient themselves with the silly little scre…

The answer is simple. They no longer had someone that would tell them "No, redo it." It's also why we have a notch on the iPhone X.

The notch is extremely ugly and unApple. Its seriously messed up.

When Steve Jobs passed on, I read a blog post by someone saying (in response to a bad, pretentious ad from Apple targeting Samsung, the one which had a condescending tone belitttling Samsung users rather than showing what the iPhone has) that it would take years before Apple screwed up its product line, but only about a year or so until they screw their advertising. I guess they have started messing their product line.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#138

Post by Chaebixi » Wed, Oct 18, 2017, 2:53 PM UTC

Don't worry everyone! Apple's going to fix this in the next version by replacing the keyboard with a touch screen!

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#139

Post by megaman22 » Wed, Oct 18, 2017, 2:54 PM UTC

threeseed wrote: post #68

ux-app wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

stop making excuses for Apple's dumb decisions. With physical buttons I can find a key by feel just by running my fingers across the top row. Good luck accurately hitting any button on that stupid little touch screen.

The Escape key is always in the same position (top left). I always hit it with 100% accuracy just like I did on my previous MacBook. And I am not making excuses for Apple. I think they should've made Escape key in particular a physical key.

Or, you know, use the keyboard layout that everyone has become accustomed to, instead of coming up with a special-snowflake input device that is a gimmick.

These new Macbooks are the Wii U's of laptops.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#140

Post by audunw » Wed, Oct 18, 2017, 2:57 PM UTC

pudo wrote: post #14

This, so much. Plus, call me clumsy, but the number of times I have accidentally triggered one of the magic bar buttons is beyond count. In everyday use, it often feels like my computer just randomly mutes system audio or locks the display (I had to get rid of the Siri button, it's incredibly annoying). All of that besides the fact that you cannot really use VIM any more because the ESC button is gone...

> All of that besides the fact that you cannot really use VIM any more because the ESC button is gone...

What serious VIM user has not remapped ESC?

One of the reasons I don't like to use VIM, is that the ESC key is so far away, and not suitable for ergonomic typing. If I wasn't already used to Emacs/Sublime and had to use VIM, I would have remapped it immediately. I probably still should, but I use it rarely enough that I don't bother.

Mac OS even has a built-in option for remapping it to caps lock. Apple is very conservative about adding options in System Preferences, so I think this is something a lot of programmers do.