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How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

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Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#131

Post by Koshkin »

rhizome wrote: post #120
RealityNow wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's absolutely absurd that "arrest quotas" are even a thing in America. The job of the police in most first world countries is to protect the people, not make arrests for ludicrous laws. I don't want my tax dollars funding police officers camping out on highways to hand out speeding tickets or arresting random people for having pocket knives on them. No wonder Americans have such an adversarial relationship with the…

In the US, law enforcement is both an industry and a market.

What isn't??

Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#132

Post by Koshkin »

mschuster91 wrote: post #104
RealityNow wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's absolutely absurd that "arrest quotas" are even a thing in America. The job of the police in most first world countries is to protect the people, not make arrests for ludicrous laws. I don't want my tax dollars funding police officers camping out on highways to hand out speeding tickets or arresting random people for having pocket knives on them. No wonder Americans have such an adversarial relationship with the…

Lol they're common in other parts of the world too, e.g. in Germany. They dont officially exist, rather informally, and end up in the UN complaining about racial profiling by cops. Pro tip, avoid German train stations if you're not white.

Do you mean "avoid loitering at train stations" or "avoid using trains"?

Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#133

Post by raverbashing »

Koshkin wrote: post #132
mschuster91 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol they're common in other parts of the world too, e.g. in Germany. They dont officially exist, rather informally, and end up in the UN complaining about racial profiling by cops. Pro tip, avoid German train stations if you're not white.

Do you mean "avoid loitering at train stations" or "avoid using trains"?

Loitering, pickpocketing, begging, etc

But somehow enforcement of the law is "oppression"

Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#134

Post by CPLX »

wdr1 wrote: post #122
RealityNow wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's absolutely absurd that "arrest quotas" are even a thing in America. The job of the police in most first world countries is to protect the people, not make arrests for ludicrous laws. I don't want my tax dollars funding police officers camping out on highways to hand out speeding tickets or arresting random people for having pocket knives on them. No wonder Americans have such an adversarial relationship with the…

"Arrest quotas" is a bit like voter fraud. It's talked about a lot, there's heavy speculation, but there's little evidence showing it exists in any systemic form. It's also worth noting in many areas arrest quotas are outright illegal. What departments do typically do is look at distributions. Say on a Friday evening shift, over the past 12 month period, a typical officer typically has 16-18 speeding stops. However,…

Yeah, no.

Arrest quotas are obviously and undeniably real, they've been documented numerous times in various contexts. The most recent major case of many such examples in NYC was the Adrian Schoolcraft case: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Schoolcraft

Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#135

Post by emn13 »

everybodyknows wrote: post #108
newsmania wrote: post #18

Cops get a bad rap, but the DAs haven’t come under fire. They knowingly ruin many many more innocent lives than cops. And unlike cops who may shoot in a poor split second decision, DAs knowingly and willingly destroy the lives of the innocent for their own personal gain. It’s time we put blame where it is due.

DAs are rewarded for convictions, the heavier the charge the better. Police are rewarded for arrests. Only one of those two drops the blight of a criminal record onto someone's future. What we as citizens can do is demand that elected officials hold DAs accountable for their wrongful convictions.

Given the injustice of justice, "wrongful" won't do much. "Unreasonable" would be a better standard.

E.g.: have a retrospective sample of cases analyzed and ranked by independent reviewers; punish those deemed unreasonable; reward those deemed reasonable (explicitly regardless of the law at hand).

Better yet, fine lawmakers that voted for laws involved in the convictions. Doesn't have to be a lot.

Good luck with that ;-).

Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#136

Post by throwawayfnei »

theWatcher37 wrote: post #86
RealityNow wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's absolutely absurd that "arrest quotas" are even a thing in America. The job of the police in most first world countries is to protect the people, not make arrests for ludicrous laws. I don't want my tax dollars funding police officers camping out on highways to hand out speeding tickets or arresting random people for having pocket knives on them. No wonder Americans have such an adversarial relationship with the…

And by extension the government. Americans have a built in distrust of our government (often for good reason), which is why a lot of policies don’t happen here.

So much distrust that we keep electing fascists!

Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#137

Post by gambiting »

raverbashing wrote: post #133
Koshkin wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean "avoid loitering at train stations" or "avoid using trains"?

Loitering, pickpocketing, begging, etc But somehow enforcement of the law is "oppression"

If the law is broad enough that the law can be "enforced" and used to arrest anyone at any given time for almost any reason, then yes, it absolutely is oppression.

Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#138

Post by mikestew »

pravda wrote: post #130
wdr1 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Arrest quotas" is a bit like voter fraud. It's talked about a lot, there's heavy speculation, but there's little evidence showing it exists in any systemic form. It's also worth noting in many areas arrest quotas are outright illegal. What departments do typically do is look at distributions. Say on a Friday evening shift, over the past 12 month period, a typical officer typically has 16-18 speeding stops. However,…

>"Arrest quotas" is a bit like voter fraud. It's talked about a lot, there's heavy speculation, but there's little evidence showing it exists in any systemic form. No it isn't! In New York City, of course there are arrest quotas. As a matter of fact, NYPD officers will arrest innocent people, on entirely trumped-up charges, just to make quota.

I’m not saying there’s a [citation needed] for every single claim someone makes, but good golly this sure would go better with a link to back what you’re saying.

Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#139

Post by ebfd »

ringaroundthetx wrote: post #89

Why isn't this enough to get all the cases thrown out under the 14th amendment's guarantee of equal protection under the law? Black and hispanic people are prosecuted while white ones were not? Owners of corporate persons were personally liable under criminal charges while chains only had to pay a fine?

That would be equally applicable to all types of criminal charges.

Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#140

Post by pravda »

mikestew wrote: post #138
pravda wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Arrest quotas" is a bit like voter fraud. It's talked about a lot, there's heavy speculation, but there's little evidence showing it exists in any systemic form. No it isn't! In New York City, of course there are arrest quotas. As a matter of fact, NYPD officers will arrest innocent people, on entirely trumped-up charges, just to make quota.

I’m not saying there’s a [citation needed] for every single claim someone makes, but good golly this sure would go better with a link to back what you’re saying.

Here ya go:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/16/nyregion/16narcotics.html

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