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Go: Ten years and climbing

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Re: Go: Ten years and climbing

#131

Post by pebers »

cloverich wrote: post #83
aphextron wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I will say though, dependency management in Go is hell. I wish Go had something like Cargo. This is the number one thing that has kept me from going full on Go. The killer feature of Node was NPM, not Javascript. Unless Golang comes up with something comparable it will forever remain niche.

(NOTE: I am not a gopher) I thought godep was that? It's marked as suitable for production now, and I think official as of their next release. https://github.com/golang/dep

AFAIK it's still not decided when/if it will join the main distribution.

I've not tried it for a while now but last I saw it was even more opinionated about GOPATH than the existing tooling, and it wasn't at all easy to figure out what it wanted me to do. Maybe it's improved since though.

Re: Go: Ten years and climbing

#132

Post by dom96 »

chimeracoder wrote: post #23

I've been writing Go professionally, full-time, for the past five years. I'm a polyglot, so before Go, I loved exploring every new language I could get my hands on[0]. I still do, for fun, but Go is the one language that has kept me hooked all this time. It's not for any single feature, or for the community (though that's a great part of it). It's because it's the only language which I feel gets out of the way for me…

In the vein of the other questions. What are your thoughts on Nim? I'm one of its core developers and always like to hear what people think of it, in this case especially since I view it as a direct competitor to Go.

Re: Go: Ten years and climbing

#133

Post by lngnmn »

Karrot_Kream wrote: post #29

Having dealt with enough spaghetti code over the years (just a few of industry experience, and some more years of academia), I understand what Go's strengths are. It's an opinionated language that stops users from being too clever or writing code that's too complex. That said, I've always hated the trends that have brought Golang into popularity. The engineers I've felt who could benefit from Golang the most could al…

Oh, come on! Go is wonderful in some parts. Methods on types (which are structures most of the time), duck-typing and emphasis on interfaces instead of classes gives you almost a statically typed CLOS without classes.

In other words, Go is as good as a statically typed C-descendant could be. It is definitely a better C without becoming a farce after "comedy" of C++ (and tragedy of Java).

Re: Go: Ten years and climbing

#134

Post by user5994461 »

elgenie wrote: post #111
aaron-lebo wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that's an intentional misreading of the Go devs. Read the Go Programming Language or any number of discussions by the guys behind Go and it's obvious that they care about their craft and care about writing real, working applications, while at the same time having a better understanding of what your application is doing. In their view the way to do that is through simplicity, but it's not a design decision intende…

I personally think Go and Java were developed for the same audience with similar intentions and language designer skill and are going to face the same criticisms. For natural languages, the research seems to indicate that information is transmitted at the same rate when the languages are spoken (e.g. http://muse.jhu.edu/article/449938/pdf ) with faster speaking rates compensating for higher verbosity. In terms of wri…

Yes, go is a replacement for Java. Google couldn't rely forever on sun forever (see the later acquisition by Oracle and lawsuits with Google). Big companies want to own their main tools.

It's also to separate itself from the Java crowd, which has a rather poor image to a lot of people that google wants to attract.

Re: Go: Ten years and climbing

#135

Post by gizzlon »

elgenie wrote: post #111
aaron-lebo wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that's an intentional misreading of the Go devs. Read the Go Programming Language or any number of discussions by the guys behind Go and it's obvious that they care about their craft and care about writing real, working applications, while at the same time having a better understanding of what your application is doing. In their view the way to do that is through simplicity, but it's not a design decision intende…

I personally think Go and Java were developed for the same audience with similar intentions and language designer skill and are going to face the same criticisms. For natural languages, the research seems to indicate that information is transmitted at the same rate when the languages are spoken (e.g. http://muse.jhu.edu/article/449938/pdf ) with faster speaking rates compensating for higher verbosity. In terms of wri…

I always hated Java but really like Go. Think it's because the Go culture and ecosystem strives for simplicity.

Re: Go: Ten years and climbing

#136

Post by pjmlp »

kibwen wrote: post #102
Karrot_Kream wrote: post #29

Having dealt with enough spaghetti code over the years (just a few of industry experience, and some more years of academia), I understand what Go's strengths are. It's an opinionated language that stops users from being too clever or writing code that's too complex. That said, I've always hated the trends that have brought Golang into popularity. The engineers I've felt who could benefit from Golang the most could al…

> I'm a much bigger proponent of languages such as Rust or Haskell which give the developer the _tools_ to ensure their own data integrity As a big Rust proponent, I don't think it makes sense to invoke Rust here. The goal of Rust is to provide a more secure low-level foundation for software; any tools it provides to "ensure data integrity" are in service of that end, and pale in comparison to the sort of correctness…

This is the main reason, why in spite of my complaints, I will support any Go project.

The end goal is that the overall software stack should become safer, regardless of what layers one is actually busy with.

Re: Go: Ten years and climbing

#137

Post by pjmlp »

user5994461 wrote: post #134
elgenie wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally think Go and Java were developed for the same audience with similar intentions and language designer skill and are going to face the same criticisms. For natural languages, the research seems to indicate that information is transmitted at the same rate when the languages are spoken (e.g. http://muse.jhu.edu/article/449938/pdf ) with faster speaking rates compensating for higher verbosity. In terms of wri…

Yes, go is a replacement for Java. Google couldn't rely forever on sun forever (see the later acquisition by Oracle and lawsuits with Google). Big companies want to own their main tools. It's also to separate itself from the Java crowd, which has a rather poor image to a lot of people that google wants to attract.

Better tell that to the Android, GWT, Guava, OpenJDK teams.

Re: Go: Ten years and climbing

#138

Post by pjmlp »

didibus wrote: post #94

Go is the new Java, and I think everyone will have to come to terms with it.

Not until it catches up with Java regarding language features, UI toolkits, DB drivers, graphical debuggers, clustering monitoring tools.

Meanwhile most commercial JDKs do actually offer AOT compilation, with OpenJDK 9 intoducing it as well.

Re: Go: Ten years and climbing

#139

Post by nyir »

Karrot_Kream wrote: post #29

Having dealt with enough spaghetti code over the years (just a few of industry experience, and some more years of academia), I understand what Go's strengths are. It's an opinionated language that stops users from being too clever or writing code that's too complex. That said, I've always hated the trends that have brought Golang into popularity. The engineers I've felt who could benefit from Golang the most could al…

With several components we're building in Go I have to say I don't see it stopping us from being too clever, too complex, and too verbose. In fact the workarounds to just get some things done without having a whole lot of duplication are fairly annoying. `go vet` with the strictest settings should probably the default if that was actually the goal.

Re: Go: Ten years and climbing

#140

Post by erikbye »

chimeracoder wrote: post #23

I've been writing Go professionally, full-time, for the past five years. I'm a polyglot, so before Go, I loved exploring every new language I could get my hands on[0]. I still do, for fun, but Go is the one language that has kept me hooked all this time. It's not for any single feature, or for the community (though that's a great part of it). It's because it's the only language which I feel gets out of the way for me…

I've toyed with Go for a while, but it has not yet become my main language. Can you talk a bit about what you use it for, what your tooling is, and if you've discovered some great go-to libraries and supporting tools?
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