NSA Unlawfully Surveiled Kim Dotcom in New Zealand • Hacker News Board

Re: NSA Unlawfully Surveiled Kim Dotcom in New Zealand

#131

Post by throwawaymanbot » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 1:11 PM UTC

jonknee wrote: post #44

The only mention of NSA seems to come from Kim... His logic appears to be that as a Five Eyes member the NSA and GCSB have some shared resources and that means the NSA used those resources to spy on him. That might be true, but he has no evidence that the NSA cares one bit about him. I seriously doubt the NSA was tasked with working a non-terrorism related piracy case, but that's me. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.c…

The NSA dishes out intel it has collected to other agencies in the US, including to the IRS and DEA etc. There is no such thing as a person not being a big fish. Its the case being supported that matters.

So in this case, the NSA would have a perfectly good reason to have him under surveillance. Primarily, when you think about how Hollywood and the music industry was impacted economically (and culturally) by his company. The DOJ were justified in requesting technical help, and would expect get intel from the NSA (Who in turn would request assistance from the NZ Folks) to support their case.

Re: NSA Unlawfully Surveiled Kim Dotcom in New Zealand

#132

Post by syshum » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 1:45 PM UTC

gozur88 wrote: post #89

syshum wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be, the US Constitution should apply to government actions ANYWHERE not just actions on US Soil, the US Constitution was never designed to be geographically limited, it was designed to limit what the government was allowed to do, period, in all cases in all lands, everywhere Sadly the US Court Systems has stated it does not have the authority to apply the Constitution to the US Government when the US Govern…

>It should be, the US Constitution should apply to government actions ANYWHERE not just actions on US Soil, the US Constitution was never designed to be geographically limited, it was designed to limit what the government was allowed to do, period, in all cases in all lands, everywhere No. There's no support for this view in constitutional law.

How so, the entire purpose of the Constitution is to be a limiting document on what the States and we the people have authorized the government to do on our behalf, not just do on our behalf with in the Geographical regions commonly known as the United States

Re: NSA Unlawfully Surveiled Kim Dotcom in New Zealand

#133

Post by syshum » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 1:47 PM UTC

thomasvillain wrote: post #104

syshum wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The courts have no problem enforcing many many criminal laws on people even when the crimes occur over seas They just have a problem applying the law to the government when the actions are over seas.. Nice little loop hole they carved out for themselves...

Congress is capable of enacting laws with extraterritorial reach. I am unaware of any law that should be interpreted to criminalize the NSA's international spying.

for starters 4th Amendment, and 10th amendment,

then there Article 2 Section 8 which does not grate the authority to create and agency such as the NSA or preform international Spying thus since the constitution does not expressly grant such authority the Federal Government is barred from such activity

Re: NSA Unlawfully Surveiled Kim Dotcom in New Zealand

#134

Post by logfromblammo » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 2:42 PM UTC

syshum wrote: post #71

logfromblammo wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the IRS can collect taxes from expatriate US citizens living and working overseas, the federal courts can certainly prosecute US citizens for breaking other federal laws while abroad. Otherwise, those people might as well wipe their backsides with their Form 2555s and mail them back without checks attached!

The courts have no problem enforcing many many criminal laws on people even when the crimes occur over seas They just have a problem applying the law to the government when the actions are over seas.. Nice little loop hole they carved out for themselves...

Exactly. It's extremely hypocritical.

And that's before you even consider the willingness of US courts to prosecute foreign nationals for breaking US laws on foreign territory, where one or more US citizens may have been tangentially affected by it.

Law enforcement cannot be above the law. It destroys the principles that make laws worth having and enforcing.

Re: NSA Unlawfully Surveiled Kim Dotcom in New Zealand

#135

Post by willstrafach » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 3:37 PM UTC

mmjaa wrote: post #129

Natsu wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish more people would call out all stories on this more often. Given the Snowden revelations, this story is very believable to me, but we should never slack in requesting proof.

You (and I) have been given very clear proof that the entirety of our digital technological world has been subverted by an ultra-elite class to serve their (secret) purposes. The call for proof on individual cases is, of course, a valid one. But to overlook the fact that we have no way to put the genie back in the box - that, in fact, there are two computer worlds - one for us, and one for the elites - is to allow ou…

> The call for proof on individual cases is, of course, a valid one

In this context though, it is because the headline indicates that it is a proven fact. However, it is not, it is an assumption directly from Dotcom. I think there would be no issue if it were more clearly stated as an allegation.

Re: NSA Unlawfully Surveiled Kim Dotcom in New Zealand

#136

Post by willstrafach » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 3:40 PM UTC

tripzilch wrote: post #125

willstrafach wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the goal in discussing something if there is no proof? I just don't quite understand. If there was evidence of such loopholes, people could demand change from their representatives. Without proof, I guess the only thing someone can do is repeat it in any IC-related thread on HN to get some easy karma points (Seens to work well!).

Don't care about the karma, what is the goal of defending those assholes from the NSA, there is loads of things being claimed about shit happening all over the world on HN that are pretty reasonable to discuss even without hard proof, but whenever it's something totally expected the NSA is obviously doing, there's always some patriot going "ah, but there's no proof". These bastards openly deny my right to privacy bec…

Getting worked up about things which may not actually be true will waste necessary energy, so when actual proof arises of abuse, people would think nothing of it instead of being alarmed and demanding change.

Re: NSA Unlawfully Surveiled Kim Dotcom in New Zealand

#137

Post by Natsu » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 4:06 PM UTC

mmjaa wrote: post #129

Natsu wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish more people would call out all stories on this more often. Given the Snowden revelations, this story is very believable to me, but we should never slack in requesting proof.

You (and I) have been given very clear proof that the entirety of our digital technological world has been subverted by an ultra-elite class to serve their (secret) purposes. The call for proof on individual cases is, of course, a valid one. But to overlook the fact that we have no way to put the genie back in the box - that, in fact, there are two computer worlds - one for us, and one for the elites - is to allow ou…

Oh, don't get me wrong, they spy on everyone, so I don't doubt they spied on him. I don't even doubt it was deliberate. I just want to see more proof of the specifics.

Re: NSA Unlawfully Surveiled Kim Dotcom in New Zealand

#138

Post by zciwon » Thu, Aug 03, 2017, 6:51 AM UTC

dgfgfdagasdfgfa wrote: post #27

philip1209 wrote: post #23

Putting aside the target of the surveillance - Yes, the NSA is a spy agency. It's their job to spy outside the country. And of course the spying is illegal outside of the country - no country endorses being spied on by foreign governments.

> And of course the spying is illegal outside of the country - no country endorses being spied on by foreign governments. Isn't this exactly what the Five Eyes surveillance agreement is? It certainly seems extremely relevant and may also explain why the NSA's surveillance here was possible.

It's illegal for these countries to spy on their own citizens so they get their friends to do it instead.

Re: NSA Unlawfully Surveiled Kim Dotcom in New Zealand

#139

Post by dang » Sat, Aug 05, 2017, 7:02 AM UTC

mmjaa wrote: post #130

adrianratnapala wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right, or something resembling right, as regards Kim Dotcom in relation to the US. But there is still something troubling here for Americans, because it means that there is an existing mechanism (and/or set of social relations) in place by which American copyright interests can turn the intelligence agencies into their servants. Once such machinery exists, it is at least as dangerous to Americans as it is to…

> troubling here for Americans Fuck Americans. There is no such thing as America any more. The machinations of America's secret, inner cabal effect all humans. America is a host species for a true parasite, and it is this parasite that we must defeat. Not America. And, if you are American, "the others" are no longer your enemy. Your true enemy, American, is in your own midst. The time for the American context is well…

Would you please not post political or ideological rants to HN? It's not what this site is for.