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Why Are Coding Bootcamps Going Out of Business?

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Re: Why Are Coding Bootcamps Going Out of Business?

#131

Post by acdha »

zumu wrote: post #113
acdha wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> America desperately needs more skilled programmers in almost every market. Outside of a few hotspots like SF, do offered wages really back that up? It's good being a developer but it certainly doesn't look like a desperate shortage.

Why not just consult the BLS statistics? https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/... Moreover, there are plenty of remote positions, so a programmer's physical location does not determine what geographical market they're in.

Why not consult the BLS stats? They have the median at $79k, which certainly isn't bad but it's not much out of line with other skilled professions.

Again, I'm not saying it's bad to be a developer, only that I'd expect a truly desperate shortage to carry more of a premium. The figures still look like business or management careers are the way to go if you're looking for money.

Re: Why Are Coding Bootcamps Going Out of Business?

#132

Post by mywittyname »

austenallred wrote: post #23
wolco wrote: post #2

Because those who can learn under those conditions can easily learn the material for free and many have before attending. What they use a bootcamp for is a bridge into a career. People are finding other less costly ways into the job market. The bootcamps of the future will focus on either the experienced developers wanting to learn a new language/skill quickly. The structure will be like an extended conference where…

I think people underestimate how difficult it is to teach yourself, especially when there are so many different ways to learn and a million different paths to take. One of the most important parts of bootcamps, in my mind, is that all of the curriculum is there, in the right order, and on a set schedule. When I taught myself to program I probably spent 80% of my time finding the right resources and understanding what…

I learned by picking up a book on development. Its curriculum was right there, laid out in the correct order and I could work on it at my own pace.

These books still exist. But today there are also guided sites like code academy that do a great job at providing elementary resources for learning to program (though, I generally find the pace to be a bit glacial).

Re: Why Are Coding Bootcamps Going Out of Business?

#133

Post by mywittyname »

barrkel wrote: post #11
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #3

I think the biggest factor causing these bootcamps to go out of business was stated in the article: there is no IT worker shortage. The fact that most of the people attending those bootcamps already held Bachelors degrees strongly implies that. If there was a real worker shortage, employers would be hiring people without degrees and have them do the best they can. I think bootcamps arose as a result of an industry-wi…

There's lots of work for people with skills. Worker shortage under one perspective is a logical impossibility - it just means salaries are too low - but from the other side, there's plenty of things that could be automated that aren't because salaries are too high, hence a shortage. This is all aside from the difficulty of grading devs to establish different salary levels, of course. I personally don't think my salar…

> but from the other side, there's plenty of things that could be automated that aren't because salaries are too high, hence a shortage.

That just means there's a market opportunity out there to build a tool that helps accomplish this. The majority of companies in the world could not afford to write and in-house version of Quicken, but they have no problem paying a few grand a year in licensing fees for it.

Re: Why Are Coding Bootcamps Going Out of Business?

#134

Post by kartickv »

EpicEng wrote: post #116
austenallred wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're comparing apples to oranges - of course 4 yrs is better than 3 months. Consider the same person at some point in the future, and it would be bootcamp grad + 3 years experience vs CS grad. You could make a case for both at that point, but I'd guess many would be inclined to opt for a bootcamp grad + experience, all things being equal.

But you're suggesting that the employer should be paying for the remaining 3.75 years of experience. I'm certainly not going to hire someone who's going to require that sort of investment in comparison to a fresh college grad. You may as well just grab seemingly clever people off of the street.

While a bootcamp graduate would require more investment than a college grad, it wouldn't be anywhere as high as 3.75 years, because college teaches you a lot of skills that aren't directly useful (Turing machines) or not in your domain (compilers or image processing) or not for several years. Training customised for your needs will be much more time-efficient.

Re: Why Are Coding Bootcamps Going Out of Business?

#135

Post by pm24601 »

bdcravens wrote: post #109
pm24601 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmmm..... > I would say that someone who needs a curriculum won't succeed as a developer. I disagree. Lets try this shall we: "I would say that someone who needs a curriculum won't succeed as a " ... doctor ... pilot ... nurse ... electrician ... architect I am not willing to accept a self-taught brain surgeon.

Nor would I. There's a reason why we're talking about this on HACKER News. Every field you mentioned is a licensed profession, in an industry surrounded by regulations and inspections. Every one of those fields involves the health or safety of other people. Programming is a pretty wide open field, without regulation and highly prescribed ways of performing the work. It feels extremely disingenuous to compare a brain…

Programming flaws kill people. WannaCry shut 20% of britian's hospitals. ( http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/13/nhs-cyber-attack-... )

Seems like programming DOES involve the health and safety of others.

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