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Used GPUs flood the market as Ethereum's price drops below $150

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Re: Used GPUs flood the market as Ethereum's price drops below $150

#131
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Miners shouldn't be meaningfully exposed since they can sell off their ETH as soon as they mine it (deposit it to an exchange address and sell off every few minutes via an API, or something like that). And while ETH might crash enough to make it no longer profitable and risking your capex, you can switch your GPU to mine whatever is most profitable, so you're more diversified than it looks and insulated from the inst…

Resale value on the GPUs is also worth monitoring. While it remains high enough, you can discount much of the capital cost because you'll get a high fraction back if you decide to sell the cards.

I doubt resale values on GPUs running at 100% for months on end is going to be high.

Re: Used GPUs flood the market as Ethereum's price drops below $150

#132
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't make sense; you are comparing the creation of a currency against the usage of other. The finance sector includes the creation of cash (its paper, price of counterfeit measures); the transportation of cash (think ATMs), the materials needed for creating debit and credit cards, including their chips, the equipment to protect banks from being robbed (think big steel security safes) along many other resource…

This is a common knee-jerk response that doesn't make any sense. None of that stops Bitcoin from being wasteful, and most of it is still necessary if Bitcoin is used more. Are you claiming that Bitcoin replaces physical security? How would it do that? Why doesn't someone just walk in and take your computer? And if you're concerned about the creation of small computer chips (why would you be concerned about this), I a…

>None of that stops Bitcoin from being wasteful, and most of it is still necessary if Bitcoin is used more

What? If used more we wouldn't even need to transform it to any other currency, its because is _not_ used more that it is usually needed to convert it to something else.

>"How would it do that? Why doesn't someone just walk in and take your computer?"

No, someone cannot walk in because he doesn't even know where to walk in, its the same reason Satoshi is extremely rich despite the curiosity of millions to know about him, but no-one even knows his real name or anything at all; we don't even know which country he lives in; so yeah it does replace physical security; at least to a significant extent.

>And if you're concerned about the creation of small computer chips (why would you be concerned about this), I assure you that Bitcoin is using more of them.

It was just an example of the millions of resources that are wasted by the finance industry, a lot that include transportation (gasoline/ fossil fuels which is way way worse than most sources of electricity gpus are using)

Re: Used GPUs flood the market as Ethereum's price drops below $150

#133
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a common knee-jerk response that doesn't make any sense. None of that stops Bitcoin from being wasteful, and most of it is still necessary if Bitcoin is used more. Are you claiming that Bitcoin replaces physical security? How would it do that? Why doesn't someone just walk in and take your computer? And if you're concerned about the creation of small computer chips (why would you be concerned about this), I a…

>None of that stops Bitcoin from being wasteful, and most of it is still necessary if Bitcoin is used more What? If used more we wouldn't even need to transform it to any other currency, its because is _not_ used more that it is usually needed to convert it to something else. >"How would it do that? Why doesn't someone just walk in and take your computer?" No, someone cannot walk in because he doesn't even know where…

Without physical security, someone can walk into the data center next to the hydro plant and take all the equipment they want.

They can also install rootkits using their physical access to their computers, so they don't even have to move the equipment.

No, you cannot replace physical security with cryptocurrency. Nor will you replace the use of gasoline or computer chips.

Re: Used GPUs flood the market as Ethereum's price drops below $150

#135
post #7

Just took a quick look at this. If you are located in the 'mining valley' of Washington where power is ~2c/kwh you are still getting healthy profits. A computer with 7 GTX 1070 graphics cards should produce ~230 mh/s and draw 1 kw. This would cost approximately $30/month in power factoring in kw demand + cooling. The above setup will currently generate $385/month in ETH. So basically for miners who are in the right s…

Call me naive, but am I the only one who looks at mining as one of the worst inventions for consuming energy possible?

Almost all of society functions on energy, some of the largest breakthroughs in society have been on sudden abundance of cheap energy and the machines, vehicles products they can create.

Entire economies can be crippled by rising costs in energy (oil shocks of the 70s) and boom by sudden drops in cost of energy.

So we've created an "industry" where you are essentially paid by comverting energy to waste. Paid to perform extremely intense difficult (ie wasteful) operations to back a useful technology (digital currency).

Assuming it catches on, energy will never be cheap, there will always be a higher floor now due to options for "mining". As we get better at it and it becomes less wasteful, the digital system will simply raise the reward so people are incentivised to once again waste it.

Ignore the short term for the moment, and which ever currency you're backing. We've created a long term societal motivation/reward to harvest every joule produce by the sun and use it to calculate hashes. I'm not talking about the next decade obviously, but we have incentivised that behavior.

If there is anything technologists should understand is that whatever your beautiful perfect technology is, it will instead be used based on whatever has been incentivised.

Regardless of the technology it powers, this is a terrible societal incentive - and one that will be around a lot longer than people are considering.

Re: Used GPUs flood the market as Ethereum's price drops below $150

#136
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>None of that stops Bitcoin from being wasteful, and most of it is still necessary if Bitcoin is used more What? If used more we wouldn't even need to transform it to any other currency, its because is _not_ used more that it is usually needed to convert it to something else. >"How would it do that? Why doesn't someone just walk in and take your computer?" No, someone cannot walk in because he doesn't even know where…

Without physical security, someone can walk into the data center next to the hydro plant and take all the equipment they want . They can also install rootkits using their physical access to their computers, so they don't even have to move the equipment. No, you cannot replace physical security with cryptocurrency. Nor will you replace the use of gasoline or computer chips.

Data centers need security regardless of cryptocurrency, you can't say the same about money and banks; so your point is moot.

To install rootkits you need to know where the computers are or some way to get to them, and that's 100% impossible with bitcoins unless you reveal your own info some other way (e.g. a security mistake)

Re: Used GPUs flood the market as Ethereum's price drops below $150

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I can attest to learning this lesson personally in 2012.

lol, sorry, but how long until your landlord contacted you? What was the conversation like? I'd would have said, sorry running servers for my internet business.

I've lived in a few house shares where power/bills are all included in rent, but the contract forbids running a business from the premises. I assume they wouldn't particularly care if I had a small software business or whatever, but if the servers were in the house and they were getting billed they most definitely would.

Re: Used GPUs flood the market as Ethereum's price drops below $150

#138
post #7

Just took a quick look at this. If you are located in the 'mining valley' of Washington where power is ~2c/kwh you are still getting healthy profits. A computer with 7 GTX 1070 graphics cards should produce ~230 mh/s and draw 1 kw. This would cost approximately $30/month in power factoring in kw demand + cooling. The above setup will currently generate $385/month in ETH. So basically for miners who are in the right s…

Call me naive, but am I the only one who looks at mining as one of the worst inventions for consuming energy possible? Almost all of society functions on energy, some of the largest breakthroughs in society have been on sudden abundance of cheap energy and the machines, vehicles products they can create. Entire economies can be crippled by rising costs in energy (oil shocks of the 70s) and boom by sudden drops in cos…

Until we come up with a viable way to secure cryptocurrency without proof of work, such incentives are necessary.

If good people weren't incentivised to spend energy on securing the network, it would be easier for bad people to spend energy on cheating the network.

Re: Used GPUs flood the market as Ethereum's price drops below $150

#139
post #7

Just took a quick look at this. If you are located in the 'mining valley' of Washington where power is ~2c/kwh you are still getting healthy profits. A computer with 7 GTX 1070 graphics cards should produce ~230 mh/s and draw 1 kw. This would cost approximately $30/month in power factoring in kw demand + cooling. The above setup will currently generate $385/month in ETH. So basically for miners who are in the right s…

Where exactly is the mining valley? Very few articles showing up about it...

Re: Used GPUs flood the market as Ethereum's price drops below $150

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Call me naive, but am I the only one who looks at mining as one of the worst inventions for consuming energy possible? Almost all of society functions on energy, some of the largest breakthroughs in society have been on sudden abundance of cheap energy and the machines, vehicles products they can create. Entire economies can be crippled by rising costs in energy (oil shocks of the 70s) and boom by sudden drops in cos…

Until we come up with a viable way to secure cryptocurrency without proof of work, such incentives are necessary. If good people weren't incentivised to spend energy on securing the network, it would be easier for bad people to spend energy on cheating the network.

Until we come up with a viable way to secure cryptocurrency without proof of work, such incentives are necessary.

This assumes, of course, that cryptocurrency itself is necessary.

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