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Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

nytimes.com

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Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#131

Post by millisecond »

guessbest wrote: post #72
mrunkel wrote: post #13

I find all this hand wringing over Google to be so tiring. Google is doing what is best for it's customers. Be that advertisers and/or searchers. If they stop doing that, they'll lose their market dominance. Last I checked, nobody is forced to use google to search for things, nobody if forced (except for perhaps android users) to use Chrome. I'm not a laissez-faire capitalist by any means, but I don't see that Google…

For me Google is the best search on technical issues and research. When it comes down to touchy political and social issues, Bing and DuckDuckGo beat Google every time. In fact I don't even use Google to look up things I see in the news. It is always skewed. I completely avoid Google News.

Honest question, how is it skewed? Not a fan of google news myself for other reasons but never felt they forced a PoV.

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#132

Post by pound »

ekianjo wrote: post #119
tuxracer wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> nobody if forced (except for perhaps android users) to use Chrome Unlike iOS you can install different browsers on Android directly from the Play Store. These can actually be different browsers with their own rendering engines not just alternative UIs on top of Chrome. Firefox on Android for example uses the actual Firefox rendering engine, not Chrome.

You can, but by default you get Chrome, which is about the same thing people were fighting Microsoft over in the Netscape-IE days, but this time on Android.

one more thing to mention about that default chrome on android: you cannot install ad-blocker there.

you may install firefox and still will have a lot of time links opened in built-in chrome, on android

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#133

Post by ma2rten »

mdasen wrote: post #22
mrunkel wrote: post #13

I find all this hand wringing over Google to be so tiring. Google is doing what is best for it's customers. Be that advertisers and/or searchers. If they stop doing that, they'll lose their market dominance. Last I checked, nobody is forced to use google to search for things, nobody if forced (except for perhaps android users) to use Chrome. I'm not a laissez-faire capitalist by any means, but I don't see that Google…

> If they stop doing that, they'll lose their market dominance. That's precisely the issue. It can be illegal to use your market dominance in one area (search) to reinforce or create market dominance in other areas. Microsoft had the best operating system and a browser that they wanted people to use. People preferred Netscape, but Microsoft used its OS dominance to kill off Netscape. It is ok to be dominant in a prod…

It can be illegal to use your market dominance in one area (search) to reinforce or create market dominance in other areas.

As far as I know it's only illegal when there is harm to consumers. Antitrust laws are meant to protect consumers, not competitors.

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#134

Post by jdjb »

ekianjo wrote: post #120
criddell wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're describing me and it pretty much comes down to trust. I trust Google a lot more than I ever trusted Microsoft back when they were the bully.

Why do you trust Google a lot more? What did they do to deserve your trust?

For me it's not that Google is more trustworthy, but that their influence and abuse of monopoly position doesn't affect me as much. As a developer I'm well aware of my options for search and operating systems.

I can choose not to use an Android phone. I can choose not to use Google search, block Google domains in my hosts file, etc. While the alternatives are probably not as pleasing or convenient, I can definitely get by without Google.

I can also get by without Microsoft. I've used Linux almost exclusively for 15 years now. But choosing to stick on Linux has been made harder with Microsoft's monopoly. It's easier now but I can remember when it was very difficult to find good hardware to run Linux and not have to pay a premium or pay for a Windows license even if you never wanted Windows (and definitely didn't want to pay out of principle).

As far as I know, Google's dominance on search doesn't affect my experience when I use other services. I haven't seen a "Halloween documents" event out of Google's camp.

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#135

Post by WillPostForFood »

ma2rten wrote: post #133
mdasen wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they stop doing that, they'll lose their market dominance. That's precisely the issue. It can be illegal to use your market dominance in one area (search) to reinforce or create market dominance in other areas. Microsoft had the best operating system and a browser that they wanted people to use. People preferred Netscape, but Microsoft used its OS dominance to kill off Netscape. It is ok to be dominant in a prod…

It can be illegal to use your market dominance in one area (search) to reinforce or create market dominance in other areas. As far as I know it's only illegal when there is harm to consumers. Antitrust laws are meant to protect consumers, not competitors.

Consumers and competitor benefit are effectively intertwined. Consumers need healthy competitors to avoid being subject to monopolies, so antitrust laws protect competitors to benefit consumers.

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#136

Post by WillPostForFood »

kefka wrote: post #118

You wanna see how scammy and nasty YELP is? Look further down and see my criticism of Google and Yelp, and who responds. User [keymone] criticizes my choices at going against Yelp... And here's what I found out. Usually, Googlers will say "I'm a googler but this is my opinion." Well, we get no such disclaimer. And wouldn't ya know. Yelp engineer. So you wonder whom I consider more scammy? Yeah. Yelp. Good job, provin…

I'd say calling out some random yelp dev for bad yelp reviews is even more shady. Why don't you tell use your real name and what company you work for now?

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#137

Post by mhermher »

kefka wrote: post #118

You wanna see how scammy and nasty YELP is? Look further down and see my criticism of Google and Yelp, and who responds. User [keymone] criticizes my choices at going against Yelp... And here's what I found out. Usually, Googlers will say "I'm a googler but this is my opinion." Well, we get no such disclaimer. And wouldn't ya know. Yelp engineer. So you wonder whom I consider more scammy? Yeah. Yelp. Good job, provin…

This is doxxing. Stop. This should be removed.

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#138

Post by kefka »

mhermher wrote: post #137
kefka wrote: post #118

You wanna see how scammy and nasty YELP is? Look further down and see my criticism of Google and Yelp, and who responds. User [keymone] criticizes my choices at going against Yelp... And here's what I found out. Usually, Googlers will say "I'm a googler but this is my opinion." Well, we get no such disclaimer. And wouldn't ya know. Yelp engineer. So you wonder whom I consider more scammy? Yeah. Yelp. Good job, provin…

This is doxxing. Stop. This should be removed.

Doxxing? Not hardly. I typed in someone's username with "yelp" into google. Any hiring manager does that with prospective employees - why is it now verboten (and doxxing) to do with with usernames?

No matter. I do believe his real name was probably unjustified. So I did redact his real name on all my posts. But I know it's available with that photo on Google's first page results.

Still, it DOES NOT change that an engineer for the firm was acting as a first line of defense on HN. And yes, I was right in that he should have disclosed it.. Cause it sure as hell looks like a corporate sockpuppet.

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#139

Post by ekianjo »

nashashmi wrote: post #123
ekianjo wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you trust Google a lot more? What did they do to deserve your trust?

They gave things away for free.

Microsoft gave tons of Windows 10 licenses for free. Does that mean you can trust them?

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#140

Post by dep_b »

ojbyrne wrote: post #124
tuxracer wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> nobody if forced (except for perhaps android users) to use Chrome Unlike iOS you can install different browsers on Android directly from the Play Store. These can actually be different browsers with their own rendering engines not just alternative UIs on top of Chrome. Firefox on Android for example uses the actual Firefox rendering engine, not Chrome.

I see Firefox and Chrome and several other browsers in the iOS AppStore.

But they rely on the browser engine Apple ships.
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