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Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

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Re: Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

#131
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just look at any suburbs: the inhabitants clearly disagree with me. Some of us just have kids and have noticed that all the city housing is either incredibly expensive or in slums, and the schools in the city proper are dangerous and terrible so we'd also have to pay for private school[0]. And we're not made of money. I'd much rather live in the city—I hate the car-centric lifestyle—but living there if I have enoug…

That's a chicken-and-egg problem too... inner-city schools suck because everyone with money took their taxes to the suburbs (for better schools).

Well, more to the point they took their bound-to-be-good-students-on-average children to the suburbs. If you do it right (i.e. you don't make a bad choice and get ripped off) you're buying your kids' peers more than anything else by paying to live in more affluent districts or (more directly) by paying private school tuition. This is why pouring money into poor districts rarely does much to educational quality—the money's coincident with other factors that make rich(er) kids easy to teach and relatively unlikely to seriously disrupt class on a regular basis, miss large numbers of school days, et c, and just giving the schools more money doesn't fix all that other stuff.

So it's still a chicken/egg problem but a much tougher one to resolve than if schools having too little money were even a large part of the trouble. It's even a shitty situation for people who can afford to get their kids into better schools because there's pressure under this system to spend absolutely as much as you can on these things, because you will definitely be improving your kids' chances in life by doing so.

It's a craptastic coordination problem that's so bad things would kind of be better if we just assigned schools based on some combination of parental income and education level, since that'd put most kids more or less where they are when we use willingness-and-ability-to-spend-money as a proxy for those things (i.e. the current system) while keeping everyone from having to waste tons of money competing over blessed zip codes or paying private school tuition.

Re: Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

#132
post #47

> If anything, having a tatty, battered old > bike affords more status as it attests to > a long and lasting love. As an Amsterdam resident: What a romantic characterization of our high crime rates! Yes, the reason I still ride a shitty old beater of a bike is definitely my long lasting love for that piece of shit, it's not because I know that if I buy anything fancy I'm going to have to never take my eyes off of it,…

In Rotterdam I used to "buy" my bikes from the homeless by offering a €5 kapsalon [1] in return for a bike. As a result, I didn't care too much if this bike got stolen and never bothered locking it, allowing others to take my bike. And then I would do it all over again. In hindsight I realize I was probably wrong to contribute to this ecosystem, but the way I saw it, I was feeding the homeless to provide a social goo…

> In hindsight I was probably wrong to pay homeless people to steal bikes. :D :D :D

You don't say?

Re: Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

#133
post #47

> If anything, having a tatty, battered old > bike affords more status as it attests to > a long and lasting love. As an Amsterdam resident: What a romantic characterization of our high crime rates! Yes, the reason I still ride a shitty old beater of a bike is definitely my long lasting love for that piece of shit, it's not because I know that if I buy anything fancy I'm going to have to never take my eyes off of it,…

Sure beats paying for a car, insurance, road tax, gasoline, parking... did I forget anything?

Yeah, having your bike stolen sucks, particularly if on your way back home from a night at De School but whatever... still cheaper (and healthier and fun)

Get it over, or you can go live a couple years in Rome and learn what it means to live in a hideous car-infested city.

Re: Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

#134
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While cycling is obviously much, much cheaper than a car, I'd argue its a myth to say it's 'free'. Start commuting a _reasonable_ distance regularly by bike and you are going to incur running costs, as well as often not insignificant investment in essential accessories you might need depending on where you live - clothing, panniers, lights, helmets, locks... There's a fair amount of things on a bike that, like many o…

That may be true for finicky road bikes with skinny chains and tires, but a single speed/internally geared bike with a coaster brake and wide tires is pretty much maintenance free. People in the US obsess about how many gears they have, but a bike with a straight chainline is just so much simpler and more reliable.

I completely agree, but not all of us have the legs for single speed in the places we live - 20% inclines and a single speed with something like the typical 46/17 style ratio is not going to work for a lot of riders.

Re: Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

#135
post #80
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The famously flat Dutch terrain, combined with densely-populated areas, mean that most journeys are of short duration and not too difficult to complete. > Few Dutch people don lycra to get out on their bike, preferring to ride to work, the shops or the pub in whatever clothes they think appropriate for their final destination. > Of course, the cycle paths lend themselves to sauntering along in summer dresses in a w…

People usually bike quite leisurely in the Netherlands. You can easily bike 10-15km in reasonable time without sweating, especially if you're used to riding a bike.

>without sweating

right now in NL it is 80 deg

right now where I live is 90 deg

the high temp for NL for the week is around 90

the high temp where I live this week is around 101

a few degrees either way makes a lot of difference

Re: Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

#136
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Another point is that even when you lock your bike, thiefs often carry the bike in its entirety or just screw off one of the wheels. Just don't buy a new bike when you're frequently in a hot spot.

Locking just a wheel is a rookie mistake, of course! Always wrap it around the frame and something that is solidly rooted in the ground. It's just that even all that isn't always good enough if the homeless guy or professional bike thief has a power-cutter thingy.

My sister locked her bike to a pole through the frame in San Diego. When she came back literally every other part was gone, and the frame remained locked to the pole. They even took the cranks, the forks, and the brake cables. Who steals brake cables?

Re: Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

#137
post #120

Just came back from a week in Netherlands and stayed in Amsterdam. What a cool place to hang out and take in the sights. Cycling there is huge indeed. The big difference I noticed from Canada was the dedicated infrastructure they have in place. Dedicated cycling lanes everywhere, it's a proper form of transportation. As a tourist, this was weird, I nearly got mowed down a few times but because I was in the wrong and…

Happy to hear you had a nice experience! I'm generally not too 'patriotic', but I can't help but feel a certain pride when I see the insane amount of bikes, especially around rush hour, and especially when I see the variety of cyclists: pregnant women, the elderly, people in suits, a father/mother with a mind-boggling three kids strapped to the bike and a little kid wobbling alongside, and then of course the occasion…

Have you seen this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xjTJUCMTZg

Video is in The Hague, I've seen it in Amsterdam though, a couple of times.

Re: Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

#138
post #38
post #8

One thing the article doesn't mention is how long the bicycle trips are. Surely the relative compactness of their cities are a major contributing factor! I live in America and commute on my bicycle almost every day. For me the biggest obstacle isn't the hills (which there are plenty of) or even sharing the road with cars (which is admittedly extremely unpleasant) but the fact that in the quasi-suburban area in which…

> The famously flat Dutch terrain, combined with densely-populated areas, mean that most journeys are of short duration and not too difficult to complete. > Few Dutch people don lycra to get out on their bike, preferring to ride to work, the shops or the pub in whatever clothes they think appropriate for their final destination. > Of course, the cycle paths lend themselves to sauntering along in summer dresses in a w…

"Fietsen" stands for "riding a bike", leisurely. Fitness racing is called "wielrennen", running on wheels, totally different thing.

Re: Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

#139
post #73
post #47

> If anything, having a tatty, battered old > bike affords more status as it attests to > a long and lasting love. As an Amsterdam resident: What a romantic characterization of our high crime rates! Yes, the reason I still ride a shitty old beater of a bike is definitely my long lasting love for that piece of shit, it's not because I know that if I buy anything fancy I'm going to have to never take my eyes off of it,…

As a fellow dutchman, duct-tape the shit out of everything on your new bike. If you're really brave even partially paint it in a hideous color (purple or something). You'll still have a bad looking bike, but at least it will be mechanically much nicer than your fifth-hand rusting omafiets. Since I started doing that I never had a bike stolen in 15 years, despite living in Rotterdam and Utrecht (big cities) and buying…

[deleted]

Re: Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

#140
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a chicken-and-egg problem too... inner-city schools suck because everyone with money took their taxes to the suburbs (for better schools).

Well, more to the point they took their bound-to-be-good-students-on-average children to the suburbs. If you do it right ( i.e. you don't make a bad choice and get ripped off) you're buying your kids' peers more than anything else by paying to live in more affluent districts or (more directly) by paying private school tuition. This is why pouring money into poor districts rarely does much to educational quality—the m…

That's a well-put perspective.

... however...

I can't even picture the political shitstorm that would happen if someone suggested (openly) segregating schools by parental income and education level.

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