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Tesla Autopilot

tesla.com

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Re: Tesla Autopilot

#131

Post by wilhil »

castratikron wrote: post #27
quotemstr wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think our legal system should allow car manufacturers to impose these kinds of restrictions on cars fully owned by their operators. If I have the title on my vehicle, I should be able to use it in any legal capacity. This restriction is an attack on the fundamental ideas of ownership and property.

How is this any different than Microsoft restricting Home versions of Office for non-business use? They've been getting away with that for decades now.

Because when you buy software, you know you are renting it - you technically can reverse engineer/decompile, copy, clone, resell - but you know you shouldn't.

If I buy a car and want to take the engine out, or a light and resell it - I would be very stupid, but, it is my property and I should be able to.

If Tesla want to lend instead of sell you something - fine, just be honest!

Re: Tesla Autopilot

#132

Post by ageofwant »

Animats wrote: post #64

Watch this at 0.25x speed or slower to see what's going on. This is a carefully chosen environment. Every place it drives has very clear highway centerline markings. It seems to be highly dependent on those for guidance. Sometimes it can't quite identify the road edge, but the centerline provides a position reference. The inputs seem to be road line recognition, optical flow for the road, and solid object recognition…

And yet, its still an objectively better driver than you.

Re: Tesla Autopilot

#133

Post by NicoJuicy »

abrichr wrote: post #119
nitrogen wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having driven a long distance in the vicinity of a Tesla that was presumably on autopilot, I found it very unsafe-seeming, darting around within its lane, sometimes drifting onto the lane line. You may not realize if you aren't paying attention, but your car might not drive as well as you expect.

> presumably on autopilot I don't know, that sounds like lots of human drivers I've encountered!

Side sitted at a Tesla car, it's not.

Re: Tesla Autopilot

#134

Post by elmigranto »

jyrkesh wrote: post #113
elmigranto wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't say that. It certainly not exclusively software and I don't think it is honest to divide a system like that into "soft" and "hard" components, since neither one has value for customer on its own.

Really? You don't see this as any different than iOS running on an iPhone? I can't use the iOS license on any other device, I can't run binaries on the device outside of what's available on the App Store. I'm wholly restricted to their rules on both the hardware and software sides of things.

I don't get what's the disagreement here. Apple sells you a whole system, iPhone + iOS. They don't sell you two things, like in PC world, for example, and that's different and that's okay as long as everyone is upfront about it.

What I am saying is that Apple sells you a product. You own it. You can do whatever you want with it. Feel free to alter any part of it, just don't expect it to work or keep your warrantee. The fact the product has limitations out of the box is a different matter. (Kind of like no one complains that kitchen timer can't boil water, or doesn't have nanoseconds precision — you want those things, you buy a different thing or make your own.)

What Apple doesn't do is to restrict you in how you use their product. There's no such thing like "you can only non-commercially photograph your family" or "never resell your iPhone", or "detaching screen is illegal".

And, more importantly, there is nothing Apple can do to stop you from doing any of those things.

Re: Tesla Autopilot

#135

Post by legolas2412 »

ageofwant wrote: post #132
Animats wrote: post #64

Watch this at 0.25x speed or slower to see what's going on. This is a carefully chosen environment. Every place it drives has very clear highway centerline markings. It seems to be highly dependent on those for guidance. Sometimes it can't quite identify the road edge, but the centerline provides a position reference. The inputs seem to be road line recognition, optical flow for the road, and solid object recognition…

And yet, its still an objectively better driver than you.

Not a better driver than "me +active driver assistance like collision detection, Lane keeping etc".

Re: Tesla Autopilot

#136

Post by quotemstr »

goodplay wrote: post #107
MarkMc wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla: We can't place restrictions on fully owned vehicles? OK, from now on we don't sell cars - we rent them for 50 years. Now can we place restrictions?

I personally find this to be better and more honest. If we as customers don't own something, companies shouldn't use words like "your" and "ownership" to mislead people.

+1. Even if there's no difference in practice, at least a long lease signifies unusual restrictions. Makers of big heavy pieces of industrial equipment also sometimes offer only long leases and never sales.

Re: Tesla Autopilot

#137

Post by sundvor »

dperfect wrote: post #73
billhathaway wrote: post #15

Tesla sent out an email today. Autopilot Updates We just released the latest version of Autopilot. You can now experience Enhanced Autopilot features including Traffic-Aware Cruise Control, Autosteer, Auto Lane Change, Parallel + Perpendicular Autopark, and Summon. Automatic Emergency Braking, Forward + Side Collision Warning, and more advanced safety features are also active and standard. All Tesla vehicles have the…

> You can now experience Enhanced Autopilot features including Traffic-Aware Cruise Control, Autosteer, Auto Lane Change, Parallel + Perpendicular Autopark, and Summon Scary stuff, really. No consumer wants (or needs) autopilot "features" - at least not from a marketing standpoint. If you ask me, the car either drives itself or you are driving it. It's a bit ridiculous to expect people to use these things safely. If…

Speak for yourself. I love the radar cruise control on my Mazda 3 Astina, and also value the AEB. I specifically bought this car because of these systems - at the time (mid 2015) it was the cheapest such car available on the market in Australia. It's a 2014 2.5 liter sedan, manual, ex demo. Love it.

Re: Tesla Autopilot

#138

Post by ageofwant »

billhathaway wrote: post #15

Tesla sent out an email today. Autopilot Updates We just released the latest version of Autopilot. You can now experience Enhanced Autopilot features including Traffic-Aware Cruise Control, Autosteer, Auto Lane Change, Parallel + Perpendicular Autopark, and Summon. Automatic Emergency Braking, Forward + Side Collision Warning, and more advanced safety features are also active and standard. All Tesla vehicles have the…

Tesla's test and validation framework must be something else. I've never written code that may kill someone if it fails. Not directly at least.

A in-dept report on Teslas' code and system qualification framework would be a very interesting read, I'm sure.

Re: Tesla Autopilot

#139

Post by pxndx »

wilhil wrote: post #131
castratikron wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this any different than Microsoft restricting Home versions of Office for non-business use? They've been getting away with that for decades now.

Because when you buy software, you know you are renting it - you technically can reverse engineer/decompile, copy, clone, resell - but you know you shouldn't. If I buy a car and want to take the engine out, or a light and resell it - I would be very stupid, but, it is my property and I should be able to. If Tesla want to lend instead of sell you something - fine, just be honest!

Why is there a difference between sowtware and the car? Didn't you also pay for the software?

Re: Tesla Autopilot

#140

Post by in_cahoots »

ageofwant wrote: post #132
Animats wrote: post #64

Watch this at 0.25x speed or slower to see what's going on. This is a carefully chosen environment. Every place it drives has very clear highway centerline markings. It seems to be highly dependent on those for guidance. Sometimes it can't quite identify the road edge, but the centerline provides a position reference. The inputs seem to be road line recognition, optical flow for the road, and solid object recognition…

And yet, its still an objectively better driver than you.

Is that what they're claiming here? It looks like they're just saying that the hardware is capable of it, and that it will beat human driving at some point in the future.
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