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Apple Announces Full WebRTC Support in Safari 11

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Re: Apple Announces Full WebRTC Support in Safari 11

#131

SO excited about this. Data-channel and all. Non-jailbroken torrenting on iOS at long last :P https://webtorrent.io/ Also, definitely worth trying out this AR.js demo if you're running the beta: https://freinbichler.me/apps/web-ar/ Always thought it was a little peculiar that the Media Capture APIs are tied to what is otherwise a very data/protocol-oriented spec. Wish we could have had a camera feed in a canvas eleme…

Aren't there torrent clients in the App Store?

Re: Apple Announces Full WebRTC Support in Safari 11

#132

SO excited about this. Data-channel and all. Non-jailbroken torrenting on iOS at long last :P https://webtorrent.io/ Also, definitely worth trying out this AR.js demo if you're running the beta: https://freinbichler.me/apps/web-ar/ Always thought it was a little peculiar that the Media Capture APIs are tied to what is otherwise a very data/protocol-oriented spec. Wish we could have had a camera feed in a canvas eleme…

How would this allow you to torrent on iOS without jailbreaking the device? My phone, though an iPhone 6, seems to shut down Safari if I've been using other apps long enough. I can't imagine it staying alive long enough to torrent anything large.

Didn't test it, but I'd guess that playing some media (audio, preferably) should keep Safari alive.

Re: Apple Announces Full WebRTC Support in Safari 11

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WebRTC has codec negotiation, which means you can give preference to a particular codec while still supporting both.

Except that open source and free software can't (legally) do that. Both HEVC and H.264 require the patent holders to be paid in order to be allowed on either a device or content.

Right.... so an open source program/device might only offer VP8. While Apple could offer both H264/HEVC and VP8, preferring the former.

Re: Apple Announces Full WebRTC Support in Safari 11

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They would likely argue that HEVC and H.264 are hardware accelerated on nearly all of their devices whereas VP8 likely isn’t. This would mean compromising on battery life as they’d have to provide a software fallback where needed. I don’t see Apple being very willing to provide a bad user experience and given how hard they were pushing HEVC during their 2017 WWDC keynote the best bet is that they think that’s the bet…

The WWDC session on HEVC: https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2017/503/

I always find it disappointing when video from Apple doesn't work in Firefox. There are quite a few JavaScript libraries available these days which support HLS in browsers which don't have built-in HLS support but Apple doesn't make use of them.

Re: Apple Announces Full WebRTC Support in Safari 11

#135
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that a political or technical decision?

They would likely argue that HEVC and H.264 are hardware accelerated on nearly all of their devices whereas VP8 likely isn’t. This would mean compromising on battery life as they’d have to provide a software fallback where needed. I don’t see Apple being very willing to provide a bad user experience and given how hard they were pushing HEVC during their 2017 WWDC keynote the best bet is that they think that’s the bet…

> They would likely argue that HEVC and H.264 are hardware accelerated on nearly all of their devices whereas VP8 likely isn’t.

I'm sure a lot of them do, but it's also true that there are a lot of Mac laptops out there which will be upgraded to High Sierra that don't have hardware HEVC acceleration.

Re: Apple Announces Full WebRTC Support in Safari 11

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The WWDC session on HEVC: https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2017/503/

I always find it disappointing when video from Apple doesn't work in Firefox. There are quite a few JavaScript libraries available these days which support HLS in browsers which don't have built-in HLS support but Apple doesn't make use of them.

Apple should stop fooling around, and start using DASH+MSE instead. But being Apple, they have very hard time letting go of their NIH and lock-in.

Re: Apple Announces Full WebRTC Support in Safari 11

#137

What WebRTC apps can we expect will be mainstream in, say, 6 years? I'm just trying to picture what this technology will allow (or replace).

People can make web apps that communicate with each other without paying for servers - hobbyists, students, developers in third world countries etc. Collaboration tools focused on local or niche things, text / video chat, multiplayer games, etc.

WebRTC can communicate on the near network without roundtrip to ISP uplink, so it can get high bandwidth in managed environments (industrial etc).

Re: Apple Announces Full WebRTC Support in Safari 11

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that open source and free software can't (legally) do that. Both HEVC and H.264 require the patent holders to be paid in order to be allowed on either a device or content.

Right.... so an open source program/device might only offer VP8. While Apple could offer both H264/HEVC and VP8, preferring the former.

They could, but as discussed in this thread, they won't. This means chromium, for example, will not be able to webrtc video with Apple devices.

Re: Apple Announces Full WebRTC Support in Safari 11

#139
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always find it disappointing when video from Apple doesn't work in Firefox. There are quite a few JavaScript libraries available these days which support HLS in browsers which don't have built-in HLS support but Apple doesn't make use of them.

Apple should stop fooling around, and start using DASH+MSE instead. But being Apple, they have very hard time letting go of their NIH and lock-in.

The problem with DASH these days is that you might have to buy a patent license to use it. The MPEG LA wants to sell you one anyhow:

http://www.mpegla.com/main/programs/MPEG-DASH/Pages/Intro.as...

HLS has no such problems which makes it the better choice.

Re: Apple Announces Full WebRTC Support in Safari 11

#140
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple should stop fooling around, and start using DASH+MSE instead. But being Apple, they have very hard time letting go of their NIH and lock-in.

The problem with DASH these days is that you might have to buy a patent license to use it. The MPEG LA wants to sell you one anyhow: http://www.mpegla.com/main/programs/MPEG-DASH/Pages/Intro.as... HLS has no such problems which makes it the better choice.

Ah, so these freaks already managed to make claims. I hope someone will work on busting them. I highly doubt HLS is in any better shape in this regard.

And Columbia University is in that patent trolls list. Disgusting.

UPDATE:

Going through that site, I found their attempt to leech on VC-1: http://www.mpegla.com/main/programs/VC1/Documents/vc-1-att1....

And they list Microsoft there, which is strange, since MS are part of Alliance for Open Media which is an antithesis of this trolling cartel. Either MS are sitting on both chairs, or MPEGLA are trying to fool everyone.

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