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Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

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Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#131

Post by throwanem »

brookside wrote: post #66
relyio wrote: post #29

I was explaining this point of view to a good old aunt of mine one afternoon and she exclaimed: “But, Joe, it is so selfish for a man to put his work ahead of everything! It’s unchristian.” “On the contrary, it is Christian in the very finest sense,” I replied. “What was it that Jesus said when his parents rebuked him for his failure to keep his engagement with them on that first journey down from Jerusalem? ‘Wist ye…

These types of arguments on whether something is or isn't Christian or so prevalent on my FB feed, especially in regards to current politics, even being posted by non-Christians trying to convince their Christian relatives and friends to renounce a policy or politician. My take would be - this is arguing within a nonsensical framework, and we are prolonging the hopefully last stages of the superstitious demon-haunted…

You seem very secure in the belief that, once the "demons" of which you speak are gone, naught but pure cool reason will replace them. One can only assume such optimism stems from a complete ignorance of history.

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#132

Post by inimino »

noja wrote: post #102
abandonliberty wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accommodation and compromise are zero sum. You're leaving a lot on the table if that's the extent of your paradigm. Here's a sample model: http://righttojoy.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Assertive-v... Collaboration is value-generating. It takes more effort and yields more return. Rather than 'pushing back' you work together to understand what is important to each party and find ways to meet those needs. This must b…

How do you collaborate on something like a technical decision which is black or white?

How do know there is such a thing as a technical decision which is black or white?

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#133

Post by nostrademons »

trendroid wrote: post #126
nostrademons wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You want to compromise on the stuff that other people find important and hold fast on the stuff that you find important. Goes for both relationships, friends, teammates, and business associates. Most people come into the world assuming that their desires are everybody's desires. We live life by the Golden Rule: "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you." This obscures that there's often a wide variety in t…

>You want to compromise on the stuff that other people find important and hold fast on the stuff that you find important. Isn't the definition of "important" what people disagree over when it comes to compromise? My girlfriend can say X is super important to her but in my eyes Y is more important than X and hence I will have to let go of X and hold on to Y. Convincing someone of why X or Y is more important than the…

In many cases you can have both X and Y, eg. if X is camping and Y is hackathons, go camping one weekend and go to the hackathon the next weekend (or have one partner go camping and the other go hacking, if you value the individual activities more than the time spent together). If X is a clean apartment and Y is more time spent programming, throw money at the problem and hire a cleaning lady. My wife and I had a fight early on in our relationship over whether the Brita should be cold or lukewarm, and we solved it by buying a $1.50 pitcher, putting my drinking water in the fridge, and putting hers on the kitchen counter. Or for a more complex example, if X is kids and Y is a startup, you figure out what else needs to change in your life to accommodate both (eg. pay money for childcare, set boundaries on work time, babysit the kid while answering support emails so your partner can take him when you have to do customer site visits) and make it happen.

There are some issues that really are mutually exclusive, mostly because they cut to the heart of what a relationship is. If one partner wants kids and the other wants no-kids, there isn't really a way to resolve that and still have what people would consider a marriage. If one partner wants to live on a farm but the other wants to live in the city, or one is a neat-freak and the other is a compulsive hoarder, you're headed for problems. If one wants the kids raised as Orthodox Jews and the other wants them to be fundamentalist Christians, this is probably insoluble within the conventional definitions of those religions. These are beliefs where you really want to make sure you match before you get married.

But even a lot of things that look totally contradictory at first can have solutions if you're willing to give up other stuff. I know couples that live in different cities and only see each other on weekends, or ones of different religions where they've just decided to mash their different cultures together and create their own religion for the kids.

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#134

Post by PatrickAuld »

It's important to remember what you are trying to do when you are being accommodating. You want to help others help themselves so that they are more capable in the end.

The author here took 100% of the work and pains from those around him. The people he helped were relieved of that task but are no more prepared for it should it arise again.

Personally I do try and be accommodating to those around me; but I include them in what is being done so they can learn from it. This give them back more than just result of the task and enables them to hopefully accomplish it themselves next time.

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#135

Post by throwanem »

bobbington wrote: post #124
brookside wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These types of arguments on whether something is or isn't Christian or so prevalent on my FB feed, especially in regards to current politics, even being posted by non-Christians trying to convince their Christian relatives and friends to renounce a policy or politician. My take would be - this is arguing within a nonsensical framework, and we are prolonging the hopefully last stages of the superstitious demon-haunted…

Some of the greatest minds of all time have believed Christianity to be the only framework that works in the world. The materialistic worldview, on the other hand is pitifully inadequate and utterly unable to explain the most basic element of our reality - the existence of our consciousness. While we can point to neurons firing in the brain, there is no materialistic explanation for how that translates into my experi…

Vouched so I can point out that yours is an obsolete line of argument; consciousness can be suspended, yet the organism retain intelligent function, by means of transcranial magnetic stimulation. Certain lesions and traumas can produce the same or a similar effect, but permanently - Cotard's delusion, for example, in which that part of the mind which calls itself "I" becomes unshakably convinced that it is dead, and assumes the body must be also because it cannot conceive of any distinction between the two. The materialist explanation of conscious experience, then, is quite straightforwardly that it is an epiphenomenon of some kinds of brains but not others, and thus in no way suggests or implies there's any sort of mystical business going on.

I can't recommend attempting to argue against materialism per se; systems of faith are so strongly and intimately cherished that this is as much an attack as is the attempt to argue you (or me) out of Christianity. The idea is rather to believe what we believe, have the other guy believe what he believes, and manage to get along nonetheless. Our errant brothers and sisters in the "progressive" heresy have largely lost sight of this. We need not live down to their example, and we must not lose sight of the fact that they are our brothers and sisters, who have merely lost their way. Anger and opposition are easy - are we here to do easy things?

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#136

Post by [deleted] »

zekevermillion wrote: post #72

This rings a bit hollow to me, kind of reminds of "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" -- a moral play, a fictional story passed off as autobiographical. Aimed to enforce our self-doubting instinct that we are somehow being a chump and letting society take advantage of us. Taking this literally is a path to regrets.

[deleted]

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#137

Post by code777777 »

manmal wrote: post #91

For anybody learning to say "no" currently - learn to say "no" gently and kindly. I'm quite bad at this myself. I let people impose stuff on me, and once I have had enough, I have a very rude way of telling people off. One reason for this rudeness is a fear that I will lose something when declining (e.g. a relationship or money), so I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place - I don't want to help, but I feel I sho…

No is a powerful and liberating word.

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#138

Post by Swizec »

hammock wrote: post #113
manmal wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very true! It's hard to argue with another person's feelings or needs though. I can always need a bit of resting (who doesn't?), so it's not even a lie if I say "Sorry I feel a bit worn out, so I can't take this right now. I have this and that task to do later and I will have to give my everything to do it properly. I hope you find a solution for your problem." The white lie would be "Sorry my foot hurts, I had an ac…

Both of those sound terrible and regardless of your feelings I might tag you as unreliable. Is there a third way?

Unreliable is great! I don't want to be relied upon for things I don't want to do.

Why would I want to come off as reliable for things I don't want to be doing in the first place? That's a great way to get to do even more of the things you don't want to do. Sounds terrible.

Align your interests with mine, then we can talk about reliable.

In the words of one Richard Feynman : http://www.deliberate.rest/?p=685

> So I have invented another myth for myself—that I’m irresponsible. I tell everybody, I don’t do anything. If anybody asks me to be on a committee to take care of admissions, no, I’m irresponsible, I don’t give a damn about the students—of course I give a damn about the students but I know that somebody else’ll do it—and I take the view, “Let George do it,” a view which you’re not supposed to take, okay, because that’s not right to do, but I do that because I like to do physics and I want to see if I can still do it, and so I’m selfish, okay? I want to do my physics.

90% of the time, being "reliable" goes against my best interests in terms of career and goals. My value is that I can hunker down and make stuff. My value is not "tasks".

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#139

Post by DeuceDaily »

DubiousPusher wrote: post #84

I have had a very similar realization regarding customer service. I used to think manners obliged me to be patient on the phone or at the customer service counter. That I should jump through all the hoops put before me. And finally if the outcome put before me was unsatisfactory that I should accept it and move on. But I've come to see that customer service is just as much something I'm paying for as the root service…

I'm sorry, I wasn't paying attention. Would you mind just putting in a ticket?

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#140

Post by manmal »

trobayhasteman wrote: post #128
manmal wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very true! It's hard to argue with another person's feelings or needs though. I can always need a bit of resting (who doesn't?), so it's not even a lie if I say "Sorry I feel a bit worn out, so I can't take this right now. I have this and that task to do later and I will have to give my everything to do it properly. I hope you find a solution for your problem." The white lie would be "Sorry my foot hurts, I had an ac…

No, neither would be even somewhat true. Of course it's open to interpretation as all language is, but "so I can't" heavily implies there was nothing more to be said about it, because everything else is apparent from context. With regard to the parent, that's a lie in the sense of obscuring ulterior motives. An apt phrase to describe this is lie by omission . In your sense, it's to weasel out, for lack of a better wo…

Yes just replace "I can't" with "I rather don't want to". I don't know anybody who would imply hidden ulterior motives in this case in real life, since "I can't" is not necessarily as strictly interpreted as you are trying to do.
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