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What was Syria like before the war

searchingforsyria.org

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Re: What was Syria like before the war

#131

Post by knz »

mcguire wrote: post #99
mafribe wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as long as Assad was ruling Assad's secular dictatorship is massively preferable to ISIS rule, especially to the 25% of the Syrian population that are non-Sunni.

And here we have the last 70 years of United States foreign policy in a nutshell.

> United States foreign policy

Western foreign policy.

And in many ways extending back well into the time of European Colonial powers carving out territory and promoting the interests of more friendly tribes/ethnicities to maintain stability and keep the money flowing.

Re: What was Syria like before the war

#132

Post by Whatarethese »

romanovcode wrote: post #74

Refugee stats: 3.6 Women and Children 1.6 Men God, I hate stats like these, why is it so hard to break up men, women and children separately to give more insight. Women are not the same as children. Or is google trying to tell us that woman are basically, well, children?

I'm pretty sure it has to do with women and children are seen as more important and if any gender is suppose to survive a conflict, it's the women and children. Men are supposed to accept the situation and allow women and children to survive. I find this very old and outdated but it still fits when it comes to statistics.

Re: What was Syria like before the war

#133

Post by hackuser »

shitgoose wrote: post #125
hackuser wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can find plenty of articles in serious sources which contain serious research on Russian astroturfing operations. Based on those, any forum is a target and HN is more influential than most.

I am afraid that burden of proof is still on you. The habit of throwing in an accusation and suggesting that your opponents go and look for proof, became too widespread.

> The habit of throwing in an accusation and suggesting that your opponents go and look for proof, became too widespread.

Generally I agree, but in this case it's very easily found.

Re: What was Syria like before the war

#134

Post by k-mcgrady »

Danihan wrote: post #92
peterlk wrote: post #80

Meta-commentary: This is one of the more fascinating threads I have seen on HN. It seems to parallel many of the problems with political discourse in the world today - maybe it's always been like this, but I'm not old enough to know. I would break down the comments into several types: 1) conspiracy theorists who believe in some secret cult that is unilaterally organizing everything 2) trolls - state sponsored or othe…

Nice of you to label everyone who preferes a more isolationist approach to global policy as a "troll" How open-minded of you.

'Isolationist' and 'anti-humanitarian' are not the same thing.

Re: What was Syria like before the war

#135

Post by pm24601 »

lefstathiou wrote: post #108
peterlk wrote: post #80

Meta-commentary: This is one of the more fascinating threads I have seen on HN. It seems to parallel many of the problems with political discourse in the world today - maybe it's always been like this, but I'm not old enough to know. I would break down the comments into several types: 1) conspiracy theorists who believe in some secret cult that is unilaterally organizing everything 2) trolls - state sponsored or othe…

What I find interesting about the Syrian issue is that it is becoming increasingly clear that diplomacy, the UN, media exposure etc is failing. Despite this "humanitarian crisis" (which I fully agree is reaching crisis levels), my impression is that almost all the media outlets and pundits are ignoring the obvious solution to this problem... unilateral US military intervention (and before we go there... keep in mind…

> What I find interesting about the Syrian issue is that it is becoming increasingly clear that diplomacy, the UN, media exposure etc is failing.

Sadly, those institutions aren't "failing" - its just that those tools are working for people that want to stay in power.

Re: What was Syria like before the war

#137

Post by pm24601 »

shitgoose wrote: post #125
hackuser wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can find plenty of articles in serious sources which contain serious research on Russian astroturfing operations. Based on those, any forum is a target and HN is more influential than most.

I am afraid that burden of proof is still on you. The habit of throwing in an accusation and suggesting that your opponents go and look for proof, became too widespread.

Not really, if you choose to silently disbelieve that is fine. Expecting anyone else to spend their time and energy on "proving" some thing to someone else, should only happen if there is a pay off.

https://xkcd.com/386/

Re: What was Syria like before the war

#138

Post by awkwardtortoise »

peterlk wrote: post #80

Meta-commentary: This is one of the more fascinating threads I have seen on HN. It seems to parallel many of the problems with political discourse in the world today - maybe it's always been like this, but I'm not old enough to know. I would break down the comments into several types: 1) conspiracy theorists who believe in some secret cult that is unilaterally organizing everything 2) trolls - state sponsored or othe…

Don't forget 6) agenda driven propagandists like you...

Re: What was Syria like before the war

#139

Post by awkwardtortoise »

Danihan wrote: post #92
peterlk wrote: post #80

Meta-commentary: This is one of the more fascinating threads I have seen on HN. It seems to parallel many of the problems with political discourse in the world today - maybe it's always been like this, but I'm not old enough to know. I would break down the comments into several types: 1) conspiracy theorists who believe in some secret cult that is unilaterally organizing everything 2) trolls - state sponsored or othe…

Nice of you to label everyone who preferes a more isolationist approach to global policy as a "troll" How open-minded of you.

Whenever syria comes out, the propagandists come out. These people try to label people in order to marginalize their views.

You can spot them easily because they use labels like "trolls", "conspiracist", "tin foil hat", etc to label their enemies.

Re: What was Syria like before the war

#140

Post by hackuser »

jameslk wrote: post #130
ido wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's really possible to argue the country is in any way better off than it was before the insurrection. The question is then, what would have been a better solution? Surely as long as Assad was ruling they were stuck (at best) at a local maximum and would have never transitioned to a free democracy without overthrowing the current government.

If it's a free democracy we're after, we should get rid of the western double standard provided to other states that had Arab Springs which were violently suppressed by their undemocratic governments. Such as Saudi Arabia[0], Bahrain[1] and Yemen[2]. I don't remember hearing about rebels being armed, no fly zones being established and missiles being launched by western states in these countries. 0. https://en.wikiped…

Generally I agree, but the West's double-standard does at least benefit some countries, such as Tunisia.

Also, even support for Syria is based to a great degree on the Western nations' own interests and not those of the Syrian people. Most of the West's involvement is to destroy ISIL and to contain Iran and Russia.

There was no credible possibility that the Saudi Arabian government, for example, would be overthrown; there was nobody for the Western nations to support. If there was a credible possibility, of course the Western nations might have decided supporting the Saudi rulers was more important, as they have many times in the past, and portrayed the rebels as terrorists.

Finally, it all begs the question: Revolutions are very risky; often the outcome is worse than the starting point, with many dead, a generation in ruin, and no improvement in government. When are they worthwhile? How can they be made more likely to obtain worthwhile outcomes?

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