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Microsoft formally bans emulators on Xbox, Windows 10 download shops

arstechnica.com

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Re: Microsoft formally bans emulators on Xbox, Windows 10 download shops

#131

Post by Waterluvian »

ysavir wrote: post #50
Waterluvian wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't follow. There's a store now that sells a subset of software. All other methods still exist. You can still do as you please, including installing another OS. Am I missing the part where they're taking away anything that was possible before?

Would I be wrong in assuming that you have a technical background, and are not representative of the average computer user? The current problem* is not that there is absolutely no way to manage your own computer whatsoever, it's that the methods for doing so are becoming more and more a niche only for the computer-savvy. The larger public is becoming increasingly more comfortable with, and encouraging of, closed syst…

So to put it simply, you believe that Microsoft is funnelling people into a very specific, controlled environment. And the only people who leap out of the funnel and roll their own computer environment are those who already know better. So 10 year old me may not have accidentally come across all the "hacker" (to quote my child self) stuff in my computer.

Yes I can appreciate that concern.

Re: Microsoft formally bans emulators on Xbox, Windows 10 download shops

#132

Post by Crespyl »

pjmlp wrote: post #108
Dylan16807 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

99% of people are only buying one copy or the other copy. Your question is just as valid with the way nintendo chose to do things, and already has an answer. They don't make a meaningful amount of money by requiring some people to buy two copies on the same account. They make a marginal amount of money as a tradeoff for being visibly customer-hostile. > So all digital assets are supposed to be pay one take two model?…

So the next time you buy lets say a game on Steam, do you also feel entitled to have the same game for free on Wii U, Switch, PS4, XBox ONE, iOS and Android, regardless of the development costs and amount of people that worked across all those devices?

Do I expect a Steam purchase to be available on Wii U, Switch PS4, etc.? No (and at least in my case, the games usually don't exist on those platforms anyway).

What I do expect is for it to be available anywhere a Steam client is, and indeed almost every game for which a port exists can be used on any Windows, Mac, or Linux computer (with different processors, GPUs, etc.) for no additional cost.

Valve has set a standard for the behavior of downloadable games across platforms, and it's totally understandable that customers would feel "ripped off" by Nintendo's approach.

Re: Microsoft formally bans emulators on Xbox, Windows 10 download shops

#134

Post by throwanem »

the8472 wrote: post #120
FeepingCreature wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you really want the basic ability for two devices to talk to each other depend on something that goes over the internet? Set up your hosts file or edit the js to point at a local server. Of course, if you're in China you'd get in trouble making connections to an outside STUN server but if you're in China you're in trouble making connections to the outside anyways , and the STUN connection is probably the least o…

> that work across NATs without issues You say that as if stun didn't exist in the udp/tcp realm. bittorrent clients in fact engage in serverless stun by using mutually reachable peers. real sockets are strictly more powerful than webrtc, period. Also, that argument is becoming more and more obsolete as ipv6 adoption increases. And again, this is not about utility, it's about control and freedom. > In any case, WebRT…

I love that you consider trivial the extrapolation from "Microsoft bans emulators in Xbone and Windows Store" to "no one can run nginx without authorization".

Re: Microsoft formally bans emulators on Xbox, Windows 10 download shops

#135

Post by TelmoMenezes »

pmarreck wrote: post #46
TelmoMenezes wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why the parent is being downvoted. Perhaps people don't like the read the truth, perhaps they are too young to remember a time of more computational freedom and openness. The majority of "computers" people own are already locked down, and it seems clear that things will only get worse -- hardware is increasingly opaque and designed to do things against the interest of the user (or, to say the least, without…

It's getting downvoted because there will always be open source OS'es that can run open-source emulators. Since all computers are also Turing machines. Dystopian reasoning in the 2 parent comments is slippery-slope fallacy.

> It's getting downvoted because there will always be open source OS'es that can run open-source emulators. Since all computers are also Turing machines.

Not really:

- Just because some computational device is Turing-complete, that does not entail that it can perform the computations that you want in a practical manner. For example, my brain or even many biochemical mechanisms in my organism are Turing-complete. That does not mean that it is feasible for me to run some open-source emulator on them;

- In practice, modern computers are no longer Turing-complete in a strict sense. They come with opaque processors that can be commandeered by third parties to interrupt or interfere with computation that the users wishes to perform. Open-source software cannot solve that problem.

> Dystopian reasoning in the 2 parent comments is slippery-slope fallacy.

Arguing that a given bad situation is likely to get worse does not constitute, by itself, a slipper-slope fallacy. It that were the case, no argument that led one to conclude that something will become worse would be valid. This is obviously absurd.

In this case, there is strong empirical evidence that users are in fact losing control over their computational devices, when compared for example with the hardware commonly available in the 90s. This is objective fact. Conversely, you provide no counter-argument. Writing the scare word "dystopian" is not an argument.

Re: Microsoft formally bans emulators on Xbox, Windows 10 download shops

#136

Post by the8472 »

throwanem wrote: post #134
the8472 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that work across NATs without issues You say that as if stun didn't exist in the udp/tcp realm. bittorrent clients in fact engage in serverless stun by using mutually reachable peers. real sockets are strictly more powerful than webrtc, period. Also, that argument is becoming more and more obsolete as ipv6 adoption increases. And again, this is not about utility, it's about control and freedom. > In any case, WebRT…

I love that you consider trivial the extrapolation from "Microsoft bans emulators in Xbone and Windows Store" to "no one can run nginx without authorization".

On windows store, not just on xbox. The next steps need no imagination, they already happened on other platforms, see the iphone or windows RT. For all intents and purposes they are general purpose computing devices but everything needs to be approved by a single vendor.

> "no one can run nginx without authorization".

Your freedom does not end when the last person on earth who could run nginx cannot do so any longer. It ceases when you can't do it on the device you own on a whim of a 3rd party.

Re: Microsoft formally bans emulators on Xbox, Windows 10 download shops

#137

Post by wpietri »

pmarreck wrote: post #125
wpietri wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think "in theory you could be free, even if in practice you aren't" is much in the way of freedom. Is there even a full open-source OS for the iPhone? If so, I have never once seen anybody using it. In practice, Apple has full control over the apps their users run, and they are not shy about using it. It has been 10 years, and this picture has been getting worse, not better. Clearly other vendors have looked…

> Is there even a full open-source OS for the iPhone? Heh, not officially, but this does exist: https://ios.gadgethacks.com/how-to/exclusive-dual-boot-andro... > because all he's really positing is that corporate control will continue to tighten at the current rate. "The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it." - John Gilmore ( https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/John_Gilmore ) In this case, I argue you c…

Analogizing to a 20-year-old quote about the Internet is not really proving anything. Even about the Internet, really; the loss of Net Neutrality and allowing ISP datamining may have significant effects.

But it definitely doesn't prove anything about software. If you want to claim that the currently slipping slope will stop at some point, you'll have to name that point and defend it.

Re: Microsoft formally bans emulators on Xbox, Windows 10 download shops

#139

Post by throwanem »

the8472 wrote: post #136
throwanem wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love that you consider trivial the extrapolation from "Microsoft bans emulators in Xbone and Windows Store" to "no one can run nginx without authorization".

On windows store, not just on xbox. The next steps need no imagination, they already happened on other platforms, see the iphone or windows RT. For all intents and purposes they are general purpose computing devices but everything needs to be approved by a single vendor. > "no one can run nginx without authorization". Your freedom does not end when the last person on earth who could run nginx cannot do so any longer.…

Yes, and if you're so monomaniacal about freedom as to utterly neglect everything else, that's a serious concern.
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