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MBAs as CEOs

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Re: MBAs as CEOs

#131

Post by basseq »

Retric wrote: post #84
basseq wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember, a primary focus on MBA's is getting to positions of power... Now you're projecting! For every power-hungry poorly-managing CEO-wannabe MBA, there's someone who just wants to know how to administer a business well. A MBA is a (but certainly not the or the only ) path to accomplishing that.

Don't get defensive. a primary focus != only focus. But, networking for example is a large part of how MBA programs are setup. PS: Probably should have explicitly used MBA programs not MBA's for the place you quoted, but it's also a large motivator for many people getting an MBA.

I don't have a MBA, so not much to get defensive about here. And I see what you're saying: yes, networking is a MAJOR part of a MBA. Morso than other programs. I don't think that translates to unmitigated desire for "power" so much as a desire to succeed and learn from well-connected peers. In which case, any well-regarded graduate or undergraduate program would have a similar benefit.

Re: MBAs as CEOs

#132

Post by benchaney »

ziszis wrote: post #19
aviraldg wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they have that in addition to an engineering degree.

No True Scotsman? [0] What is Andy Jassy's engineering degree? What is Sheryl Sandberg's engineering degree? The reality is that people aren't one-dimensional. If you have overly simple rules: no MBAs, must have University degree, must have Ivy league, Uber people are unethical etc, you make worse decisions. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

"No True Scotsman?"

Nope.

Re: MBAs as CEOs

#133

Post by metaphorm »

Pica_soO wrote: post #96

Can you please deliver the following numbers and correlate them? X: Reliance of the manager on numerical only input. Y: Short-term improvement, usually gained by burning a non-measurable resource (brand-trust of the consumers, etc.) T: Time from Promotion to a different Department till Disaster Impact F: Time from Consequence Impact to arrival of capable fire-brigade CEO, basically reverting disastrous changes and re…

F(T) = AX^2 + BY^(1/T)

where coefficient A is the current retail price of this season's latest best-seller on quantitative management fads, and coefficient B is absolute value of the difference between the manager's real shoe size and shoe size claimed on their OK-Cupid profile.

Re: MBAs as CEOs

#134

Post by ashark »

stvswn wrote: post #115
consp wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about them, but since they rose up in the companies you usually get an MBA from that company. So the cause/effect relationship is off. I assume they were proper managers (like actual management, not shitty middle management) before getting the MBA. This is what usually happens to some of the engineering guys I went to university with who stay at companies and do not specialize in anything engineering but…

Everytime we do this on HN, the same argument shows up -- "MBAs are the worst." "Well what about these popular CEOs?" "Well they're not really MBAs, c'mon." Sundar Pichai went to Wharton for his MBA before joining Google. He is also ex-McKinsey. So, by HN standards, he's the absolute worst, right? Google's leadership ranks are filled with MBAs, including tons of VPs that aren't household names but are nonetheless ver…

> The next phase of this monthly argument on HN will be, then: "Well, that's what's wrong with Google then, it's all crap after they started hiring MBAs!" which is also nonsense, because lots of the senior people w/ MBAs were hired a decade ago or more.

To be fair, "a decade ago, give or take" may fit perfectly with some people's view of when Google (and with it, the rest of the Web) become crap.

Re: MBAs as CEOs

#136

Post by anjc »

I wish that people who rail against MBAs, as if they're a cult that should be demonised, would take 3 minutes to look at the classes and topics that you cover in a typical programme.

You'll quickly see that they aren't programmes that you go into to exchange business cards and smoke cigars, and go off to do a few fun team building exercises and projects while casually reading Ries and Thiel and other pop-business bullshit...they're generally highly academic and very difficult to do well in.

An MBA is to business what Computer Science is to coding as a junior web dev. You'll probably never use 90% of what you learn, but you'll get a high level overview of several important fields which lots of important academics (e.g. Mintzberg) have explored over the last century, and you'll be a better worker for it.

Re: MBAs as CEOs

#137

Post by nradov »

acalderaro wrote: post #74

One question I asked that turned me off from pursuing an MBA was "what happens when the MBA pool becomes as saturated as the pool?" What other degree can one get besides an MBA to demonstrate success at business? How can one manage a social network that large at the minimum level required to get referrals to jobs. What will happen to wages? When I started thinking long term, I realized that people everything an MBA t…

In theory you can learn everything that an MBA program teaches through self study. In practice it's tough to get more than a superficial understanding of the subjects without actively participating in class discussions, working together with other students on group projects, and taking exams to really measure your knowledge. Autodidacts are often overconfident and missing key knowledge because no one ever really challenged them.

The size of the MBA pool is somewhat self limiting because the coursework is kind of a grind. None of it requires any real genius but there's a lot of it.

Re: MBAs as CEOs

#138

Post by dasil003 »

bmpafa wrote: post #59
alphonsegaston wrote: post #10

I think it's more useful to think of MBAs as ordination into something like the Jesuits of American Corporatism. Late Capitalism in the US has evolved in such an obviously unequal and environmentally dangerous way that the only recourse we have is to a kind of "mystical" rhetoric. In this kind of system, being some kind of guru is just as important, if not more, than one's actual business acumen. Hence all the TED ta…

I'm an MBA & startup founder, and I don't think it's fair to suggest this is an MBA-only thing. Talk to any startup co-founder or early-stage employee, and tell him/her that Lean Startup principles are wrong, or that VC $ is never worth it, or that Tim Ferriss (PBUH) should work longer hours--I'm certain they'd get just as dogmatic as you suggest MBAs are about capitalism. MBA teachings are useful in the same way tha…

I get that you're feeling stereotyped as an MBA, but you're doing the same. I happen to have been a co-founder and early employee several times, and the issues you cite are anything but the dog whistle you imagine them to be.

For instance, saying "VC $ is never worth it" is a far more dogmatic position than what most startup people I know believe: namely that it's a major decision with serious pros and cons that can make a huge difference in your potential benefit and control of your business.

WRT to Tim Ferriss, it's even more bizarre to imagine that there is some kind of startup party line in support of his methodology. The guy is a self-help guru with a cool brand. Far be it from me to proclaim what he should or should not do, and I think most startup people would agree that the main relevance he has to startup life is brand-building.

Lean Startup is the only one where I think you are on the mark, but even there, most of that stuff is just common sense table stakes that you pick up a few months into your first startup. If you want to make an argument against it, it's not like I couldn't be swayed in a variety of specific circumstances.

Re: MBAs as CEOs

#139

Post by Mitchhhs »

Mitchhhs wrote: post #27

Startups is the new thing for MBAs, our research report showed that now close to 10% of MBA classes go to work for startups and its beginning to eclipse investment banking (might be a good time to be a banker :) ). If you want to see the full report on these trends for MBAs going to startups, including their average compensation, here it is: https://gallery.mailchimp.com/570b962c65552f112714db835/file...

Also if you're interested in checking out detailed MBA compensation across roles check this out:

https://app.transparentcareer.com/explore

Re: MBAs as CEOs

#140

Post by [deleted] »

krmmalik wrote: post #82
bmpafa wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an MBA & startup founder, and I don't think it's fair to suggest this is an MBA-only thing. Talk to any startup co-founder or early-stage employee, and tell him/her that Lean Startup principles are wrong, or that VC $ is never worth it, or that Tim Ferriss (PBUH) should work longer hours--I'm certain they'd get just as dogmatic as you suggest MBAs are about capitalism. MBA teachings are useful in the same way tha…

Do you mind if i ask why you used the "(PBUH)"? Was it sarcasm? (I know what it stands for, but im confused about the usage)

[deleted]
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