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Thousands of underground gas bubbles poised to 'explode' in Arctic

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Re: Thousands of underground gas bubbles poised to 'explode' in Arctic

#131

Post by rubber_duck »

ericd wrote: post #67
rubber_duck wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why focus on "fixing" climate ? Why not just assume it's going to become unstable in close future and start building with that assumption ? Large scale isolated citiy domes. Nutrient synthesis that doesn't rely on climate/agriculture. Environment independent energy generation like micro nuclear reactors. Large scale air filtration and temperature control. As the world becomes more interconnected and developed catastr…

Have you read the Silo series? But to answer your question, because we can't build enough of these to sustain billions of people.

>But to answer your question, because we can't build enough of these to sustain billions of people.

Maybe but then again scaling isn't really the immediate problem - it's building the thing in the first place, replicating should be simpler and by the time it's done who knows what the tech will be.

And while it probably won't work for everyone it will work much more reliably for those that participate in it - not just for climate change but for other catastrophe protection/isolation as well.

Re: Thousands of underground gas bubbles poised to 'explode' in Arctic

#132

Post by Daishiman »

randyrand wrote: post #47
Daishiman wrote: post #10

Well this is pretty much the beggining of the end then.

The consensus is that unchecked GW would not be a human extinction event.

Oh so it's not the end of the entirety of human beings, instead it's just the end of civilized modern society as we know it!

Phew THAT was close!

Re: Thousands of underground gas bubbles poised to 'explode' in Arctic

#133

Post by ansible »

phkahler wrote: post #84
gph wrote: post #16

I know it's stupid and crazy, but would carpet bombing the arctic work to burn up the methane trapped below the permafrost before it leaks out into the atmosphere and causes worse problems? Or maybe we should send out expedition crews to find and preemptively explode these methane bubbles. Perhaps the way things are going they will become too plentiful to really do anything realistic about it.

How about just spreading a bunch of methane consuming bacteria over there? Not quite suited to the environment - how about breeding some that are?

I don't see that working real well.

After the methane bubbles pop, the methane spreads out widely.

Before the bubbles pop, the bacteria would not quickly / easily get to where the methane is actually concentrated. They don't just dig for resources, they have to ride along with some other process (like water flow).

Re: Thousands of underground gas bubbles poised to 'explode' in Arctic

#134

Post by M_Grey »

marcosdumay wrote: post #92
Retric wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Methane has a short ~5-10 year half life in the atmosphere. So, releasing 50x current methane levels over 100 years does not triple current methane levels.

Yep. Everything depends on how fast that methane will get released. It can vary from "we are completely fucked up, good bye" to "that's a rounding error, no big deal". Methane should be easier to take out of the atmosphere than CO2. Spraying something at the Stratosphere could be incredibly helpful even if the substance is short lived. (But I have no idea what to spray there, would water make any difference?)

When you look at the many different potential sources of, "Fucked... goodbye..." the trend is very clear. We're juggling apocalypses and just waiting to find one that will stick. Will it be ocean acidification first? Ocean levels rising? Catastrophic weather patterns? Famine? Drought? War touched off by rapid changed? Mass extinctions?

They're all in play, each with the potential to end us.

Re: Thousands of underground gas bubbles poised to 'explode' in Arctic

#136

Post by rubber_duck »

jacquesm wrote: post #66
rubber_duck wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why focus on "fixing" climate ? Why not just assume it's going to become unstable in close future and start building with that assumption ? Large scale isolated citiy domes. Nutrient synthesis that doesn't rely on climate/agriculture. Environment independent energy generation like micro nuclear reactors. Large scale air filtration and temperature control. As the world becomes more interconnected and developed catastr…

Most of your partial solutions depend on 'mere engineering' on a scale that has never been attempted before.

Sure but I think climate change is just one of many variables that show how our global society is fragile - the direction of my proposal would go a long way towards making it much more robust, isolation from climate change is just one problem solved by it. It becomes easy to quarantine/filter access preventing biological contamination. Even on city level you can have isolated blocks further limiting the impact of catastrophic events.

I think the "preserve the environment" is a knee-jerk driven by the same kind of instincts that sell "natural organic food" and stuff - even if we could somehow magically reign in man made climate change there's really no guarantee that the climate will remain stable or that a low probability event like a volcanic eruption won't cause a huge global crisis, etc.

Instead of hoping things remain as they are we should limit our exposure to environment risks.

Re: Thousands of underground gas bubbles poised to 'explode' in Arctic

#137

Post by ivoras »

dwaltrip wrote: post #118
british_india wrote: post #24

This is precisely why Dr. Guy McPherson has predicted human extinction on earth by 2030. Methane clathrates coming from the Arctic sea floor and from Canadian and Siberian permafrost. This is the most serious threat we face now.

Even if we get a 5° - 10° Celsius increase, wouldn't there be plenty of opportunity for millions of humans to survive closer to the poles? Not that it would be easy or desirable. Some of the worst scenarios might result in 99% (or higher) of humans dying - obviously an unspeakably immense tragedy. Yet that would still leave tens of millions of people to carry on. It seems to me that it would be extremely difficult to…

Depending on what exactly happens. If the composition of the atmosphere changes enough, only the simplest life forms will survive.

Re: Thousands of underground gas bubbles poised to 'explode' in Arctic

#138

Post by rubber_duck »

mirimir wrote: post #103
rubber_duck wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why focus on "fixing" climate ? Why not just assume it's going to become unstable in close future and start building with that assumption ? Large scale isolated citiy domes. Nutrient synthesis that doesn't rely on climate/agriculture. Environment independent energy generation like micro nuclear reactors. Large scale air filtration and temperature control. As the world becomes more interconnected and developed catastr…

It seems likely that some are doing this. But I doubt that they want publicity ;)

PM invite pls :)

Re: Thousands of underground gas bubbles poised to 'explode' in Arctic

#139

Post by whyenot »

M_Grey wrote: post #134
marcosdumay wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Everything depends on how fast that methane will get released. It can vary from "we are completely fucked up, good bye" to "that's a rounding error, no big deal". Methane should be easier to take out of the atmosphere than CO2. Spraying something at the Stratosphere could be incredibly helpful even if the substance is short lived. (But I have no idea what to spray there, would water make any difference?)

When you look at the many different potential sources of, "Fucked... goodbye..." the trend is very clear. We're juggling apocalypses and just waiting to find one that will stick. Will it be ocean acidification first? Ocean levels rising? Catastrophic weather patterns? Famine? Drought? War touched off by rapid changed? Mass extinctions? They're all in play, each with the potential to end us.

Is this why we have not yet found signs of intelligent life in the universe? Every time a civilization is advanced enough to really screw up (their) planet, inevitably, they do? Fermi Paradox redux.

Re: Thousands of underground gas bubbles poised to 'explode' in Arctic

#140

Post by baursak »

gech wrote: post #114
flavor8 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better save it for anti aging supplements first. Easier to build climate resistant infrastructure here than on Mars.

But as a member of the .01% I'd rather only build new infrastructure where I can guarantee only myself and select others will be able to utilize it. I wouldn't want to waste my money on something that might be ended up being used by the public.

Can't tell if this was sarcasm or a serious statement.
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