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Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

nautil.us

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Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#131

Post by jacobush »

rumcajz wrote: post #77
Psychthowaway wrote: post #22

As a public figure, it wasn't worth burning my reputation to type this out, but I think that speaks to the state of discourse around mental health today. The article is uses the word "psychopathology" which is a general term for the study of mental disorders. However I want to talk specifically about Psychopathy as a disorder, because I recently came to understand that I am a psychopath. My guess is that there are pr…

Glad you wrote this. I was often wondering whether it is possible to communicate with a psychopath. Communication requires trust, i.e. that the person you are speaking with isn't lying. With non-psychopaths this is achieved by the complex play of empathy, guilt etc. However, given that psychopaths lack these feeling the mechanism just doesn't work. It's an epistemic and, actually, quite terrifying problem: You have t…

Very good observation of the problem. Interesting suggestion too

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#132

Post by dredmorbius »

Creativity, a component of genius, and problem solving (likewise) are of themselves both in part skills and not necessarily some innate talent.

I've been poking around the Skills and Creativity pages on Wikipedia for the past few days, as well as their references, looking at the state of art and understanding of these topics.

Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi's five-phase model of creativity seems pretty accurate: preparation, incubation, insight, evaluation, elaboration. (Creativity: Flow and the psychology of discovery and invention).

I'm also quite captivated by Liane Gabora's "honing theory", which ... gets into a whole mess of areas: world models, systems theory, epistemology, evolution, communications theory, and more. I've only just run across it but it's quite exciting, as is much the rest of her work (bio page with links below).

Another element I'm finding useful is to have a useful concepts and interests capture system, for which I've gone retro: 4x6 index cards and a series of file boxes. The immediacy, free-form nature, adaptability, and physicality of the system make it hugely useful (my HN user submissions history includes a link to a POIC, "pile of index cards", data management system). And the list of people who've relied on index cards, starting with Carl Linneaus who invented the damned idea, is pretty impressive. (I particularly recommend John McPhee's essay, "Structure".)

I've known researchers myself who've used the method and am coming to understand its merits. And yes, search and grep are challenges, but the review such attempts trigger seems to be a more-than-ofsetting advantage.

https://www.worldcat.org/title/creativity-the-psychology-of-...

https://people.ok.ubc.ca/lgabora/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creativity

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skill

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#133

Post by [deleted] »

noir_lord wrote: post #49
sverige wrote: post #20

Every time I read one of these articles about genius and madness, I become smug for a little while, then I get depressed because I realize that I haven't accomplished anything noteworthy, then I'm mildly reassured because occasionally my wife will spontaneously aver (contrary to all expectation) that I am a genius, then I get distracted and start chasing some ideas, then I get depressed again because, well, shit, I s…

When my GF tells me I'm really clever I just say "not really, I have a good memory and read a lot." I'm not proud of my intelligence, why would I be? (much of it) is determined by genetics and the environment you grew up in and I had little control over either of those. I also point out she is the one who speaks 3 languages fluently, has a degree in finance and qualified as a shipbroker, I just explain things really…

[deleted]

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#134

Post by narag »

dredmorbius wrote: post #125
dkarapetyan wrote: post #32

Evolution is probably the worst way to design anything and yet all of biology is driven by it. It is basically a random walk that just flips bits and every so often it is inevitable that some of those flipped bits will have something to do with the brain's default networks and modes of operation. But I think genius is an unstable optimum and things inevitably slide downhill. There is no such thing as heritable genius…

There are numerous examples of families in which talents seem to persist across two or more generations. The Bachs and Mozarts come immediately to mind. Myrna Gopnik and her children Adam, Sarah, and Blake. The Huxleys. The Darwins. Multiple acting and performing dynasties: the Barrymores, Ravi Shankar and daughter Norah Jones, Woody and Arlo Guthrie. The Assads: brothers Sergio and Odair, sister Badi. That's just of…

It's easier to understand if it's thought in a negative way. For "genius" you need the confluence of maybe a dozen genes. The moment one of them is not present, you don't get the whole potential. A genius' child could be very talented, but not quite the same as parent. There is also the "nurture" component, but people tend to underestimate or even discard genetics because it isn't just a single gene.

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#135

Post by jsemrau »

sverige wrote: post #20

Every time I read one of these articles about genius and madness, I become smug for a little while, then I get depressed because I realize that I haven't accomplished anything noteworthy, then I'm mildly reassured because occasionally my wife will spontaneously aver (contrary to all expectation) that I am a genius, then I get distracted and start chasing some ideas, then I get depressed again because, well, shit, I s…

To repeat an age old mantra by Thomas Edison. Success is 99% perspiration and 1% inspiration. All your subjective intelligence is worth nothing if you can't keep yourself focused on your task.

I'd recommend starting writing a journal with ideas you want to execute and instead of drinking / watching tv crack your habit and design something cool.

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#136

Post by FailMore »

sverige wrote: post #20

Every time I read one of these articles about genius and madness, I become smug for a little while, then I get depressed because I realize that I haven't accomplished anything noteworthy, then I'm mildly reassured because occasionally my wife will spontaneously aver (contrary to all expectation) that I am a genius, then I get distracted and start chasing some ideas, then I get depressed again because, well, shit, I s…

There is a big separation between your mental ability to come up with strong ideas and bringing these ideas to life. The biggest difference is fear of failure / rejection, which we feel much more strongly when we do things. I would focus on exploring if you have any issues in this area. A therapist is a great person to help with this.

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#137

Post by RobGal »

sverige wrote: post #20

Every time I read one of these articles about genius and madness, I become smug for a little while, then I get depressed because I realize that I haven't accomplished anything noteworthy, then I'm mildly reassured because occasionally my wife will spontaneously aver (contrary to all expectation) that I am a genius, then I get distracted and start chasing some ideas, then I get depressed again because, well, shit, I s…

I think having a wife who loves you and supports you is a noteworthy accomplishment.

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#138

Post by mtreis86 »

sverige wrote: post #20

Every time I read one of these articles about genius and madness, I become smug for a little while, then I get depressed because I realize that I haven't accomplished anything noteworthy, then I'm mildly reassured because occasionally my wife will spontaneously aver (contrary to all expectation) that I am a genius, then I get distracted and start chasing some ideas, then I get depressed again because, well, shit, I s…

Maybe your (our, as society) definition of genius is flawed? I think genius and meditate are closely related mental practices. One is practicing integrating new information. The other is practicing mental calmness and exploration. Both are things everyone experiences from time to time, and both improved through practice. What do you think genius means?

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#139

Post by epalmer »

alfonsodev wrote: post #126
hyperpallium wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's that TED talk about an older meaning of "genius" is something that visits you, like a muse, and not something that you are. It's just up to you to be prepared when inspiration strikes, to notice it, and follow up on it. Noteworthiness is also very dependent on context. If you're too late, you're not a genius, even though you came up with it independently... how can what other people do affect your brain tissu…

Would you mind to share a link to the TED talk ?

This is probably the Ted talk that was being referred to: https://www.ted.com/talks/elizabeth_gilbert_on_genius

This is one of my favorite Ted talks.

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#140

Post by epalmer »

pryelluw wrote: post #40
sverige wrote: post #20

Every time I read one of these articles about genius and madness, I become smug for a little while, then I get depressed because I realize that I haven't accomplished anything noteworthy, then I'm mildly reassured because occasionally my wife will spontaneously aver (contrary to all expectation) that I am a genius, then I get distracted and start chasing some ideas, then I get depressed again because, well, shit, I s…

I used to feel the same way. What changed? My brother died. Dropped dead. I realized that life is not only short but fragile. I started to work on improving my life one step at a time. Wanting things to happen overnight but knowing that takes time. Sometimes losing faith but never losing focus on the end goal. I want to to not waste my life. Forget being smart or doing something big. I don't want to regret wasting it…

pryelluw Sorry to hear that your brother died. More than a decade ago I had 4 way by-pass. The doctors told me they thought I could die any minute. Waiting for the doctors to take me to the operating room I had a conversation with God where I asked God if I would survive. I was told yes, that it was not about me and was about the kids.

It took me a few years to figure out what was meant by the conversation. You see I have two kids. I came to realize that it was about more than my kids. So now I work at a University after working at a credit card company and I volunteer for programs that help youth. Mostly STEM related activities like FIRST Robotics.

>If you want to do something worth doing, look inside and figure out what makes you tick.

This is so true. I used to think I needed to volunteer in ways that were public or the opportunities provided by my employer or friends. Once I got over that I searched for opportunities that were aligned with my skills and talents. So I work with STEM and more.

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