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I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

theguardian.com

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Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#131
post #30
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work on Beaker Browser. Version 0.7 will have markdown sites. Here's what that looks like: https://twitter.com/pfrazee/status/840228255529590784 If you ask a layman to differentiate between "the browser" and Facebook, they might not know the difference. In a lot of ways, Facebook is a browser for a set of content types like posts, videos, business pages, etc. Same logic applies to say YouTube: it's a specialized "s…

Could Beaker be distributed as a browser extension for Firefox and Chrome?

I think this would constrain the vision of Beaker. I can't point to any concrete examples (like, where the extension API doesn't support something beaker does), but I can imagine wanting a less sandboxed environment when developing the platform for distributed web apps.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#132

As much as I'd love to help projects like IPFS (for example), truth is that most people simply don't care and are entirely clueless on the impact of the continued centralization and surveillance of the Internet on their lives. Sitting with random people on a table, they giggle and smirk saying "I've got nothing to hide, you're too paranoid, bro, cheer up!" and I quickly give up. They have zero idea about how much inf…

truth is that most people simply don't care and are entirely clueless on the impact of the continued centralization and surveillance of the Internet on their lives

That's a common assumption, but I wonder how true it really is. I've certainly talked with friends in their 20s and maybe early 30s -- people who have grown up with the Internet and ubiquitous mobile devices -- and had them express a sentiment that was more frustration than ambivalence. Sometimes they did find it creepy that they'd be tracked around with ads, or that their phone was doing things based on where they were or what they had planned to do later. However, they've never known technology to work any other way and assume there's nothing they can do about it, and they value the social aspects of sharing stuff online so they keep using these services.

I very much like the idea of creating a "home internet box" which is a self-contained fanless machine connected to an UPS -- and it contains router, firewall, own website, own mailserver, own private Dropbox, a universal P2P node (BitTorrent / IPFS) etc., but as others have pointed out, our current stack of network technologies is way too bloated and full of incomplete standards

It used to be common that your ISP would provide you with an email address, web hosting, and so on as part of your package. Everyone could set up a basic web site by just FTPing an HTML file up to their ISP's server, and then yourname.yourisp.com would show it to everyone, or you could get your own domain name and use that instead. Likewise for sending and receiving mail. Many countries set up their legal/regulatory frameworks to foster competition between ISPs, and so in practice we had a relatively decentralised Internet. You obviously still had the equivalent of today's lock-in problem if you relied on the email or web address your ISP gave you rather than your own domain, but you didn't have to.

It doesn't really take having some magic box in everyone's home to provide this sort of flexibility, though such a box would be no bad thing IMHO. We just have to stop doing so much through a tiny number of centralised service providers and social networks, and develop standards for interoperability and federation. The whole Internet was built on those principles, so I'm pretty sure we could do it for sharing data like mail and photos, and there are many interesting possibilities in terms of searching for data as well.

One of the other provisions in the new EU rules that come into effect in 2018 is effectively a right to export data from one controller so it can be processed by another, so people could potentially migrate all the data they've given to sites like Facebook or Instagram or Twitter or GitHub to some other competing service (assuming such a service exists). It will be interesting to see how that one plays out and whether it is effective in breaking the lock-in effects that have allowed so few companies to become so dominant in recent years.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#133
post #70

Does anyone else see as problem that web browsers are getting so feature-rich? That means that if anyone wants to write a new web browser he won't be able to.

I don't see this getting better. In fact, I think the next big trick in web browsers will be to embed a full-blown GUI widget toolkit, so you can run what would effectively be a Visual Basic 6.0-type program, directly in the browser, allowing you to bypass all the HTML5/CSS/JS layers we slather on top of whatever framework we're using to make it approach the same UX as a desktop app. It's going to take even more band…

Can pretty much do all that in a Java applet, and have been able to for a long time.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#134

It's interesting that one of the great things about the web is the promise of it distributed nature, and yet his prescribed 'fix' for misinformation sounds like the establishment of some sort of central authority to regulate content.

The real test of whether one supports free speech is whether they still support it when voices they don't like get heard.

Kind of like the way to judge a person is how they treat those who are less fortunate, not how they treat their peers.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#135
post #2

I would truly love a new "web" which is effectively style-free. I think the existing one is fine to continue for the general public, online shopping, social networks, etc.. but a parallel information-dense system that uses ultra light weight browsers that work on every device and platform, accessing machine-readable data with some standard stylesheet that concentrates in readability, and the "good" bits of the modern…

I would truly love a new "web" which is effectively style-free ... a parallel information-dense system that uses ultra light weight browsers that work on every device and platform, accessing machine-readable data

That sounds a lot like the Semantic Web, another thing that Berners-Lee has promoted over the years but that has gained limited traction so far.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#136
post #70

Does anyone else see as problem that web browsers are getting so feature-rich? That means that if anyone wants to write a new web browser he won't be able to.

Feature wise, I always think there isn't much between the big brand browsers without extensions. They could do so much more. They may be better at CSS, JS and have some good debug tools in them these days, but as actual web browsing tools, there's plenty of ground to cover. Bookmarking, History, Link management and even Meta inspections/overviews could be much more user friendly and useful. Example: Chrome is a tabbed browser, and as such titles are lost until you focus on tabs or select a tab. And that bit of meta information is really important. Publish dates, shouldn't necessarily be embeded in HTML body, when a browser could extract that information from a header or a head. Navigation could be more fluent and the browser could aid in that. So usability wise, I'd say they are pretty feature lacking.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#137
post #70

Does anyone else see as problem that web browsers are getting so feature-rich? That means that if anyone wants to write a new web browser he won't be able to.

Feature wise, I always think there isn't much between the big brand browsers without extensions. They could do so much more. They may be better at CSS, JS and have some good debug tools in them these days, but as actual web browsing tools, there's plenty of ground to cover. Bookmarking, History, Link management and even Meta inspections/overviews could be much more user friendly and useful. Example: Chrome is a tabbe…

From your example what I could understand is that browsers are not doing what you prefer, so you call them "feature lacking".

For the specific case of your example I prefer the current browser behavior. So what?

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#138
post #99
post #70

Does anyone else see as problem that web browsers are getting so feature-rich? That means that if anyone wants to write a new web browser he won't be able to.

It's called technical 'progress' - as technology progresses, you need bigger and more specialised teams of technicians. It reaches a point where huge entities like governments and corporates are the only groups with enough resources to compete. It happens everywhere... a constant drive to improve by building on top of layers and layers of abstraction - to the point where even the experts give up and view it as, well,…

I don't see any other example.

I see technologies being replaced by something totally new from time to time.

What would be an example of this?

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#139
post #97
post #70

Does anyone else see as problem that web browsers are getting so feature-rich? That means that if anyone wants to write a new web browser he won't be able to.

Does anyone else see as problem that web browsers are getting so feature-rich? That means that if anyone wants to write a new web browser he won't be able to. Those who control the web browsers control the Internet. And web browsers have gotten so huge and hyper-complex that only wealthy corporations can afford to enter the market as new players.

Apart from the political rant that's exactly what I said, isn't it?

Or do you meant to say Google, Apple and Mozilla are working to increase the features of their browser in the last years with the objective of controlling the Internet in their minds?

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see this getting better. In fact, I think the next big trick in web browsers will be to embed a full-blown GUI widget toolkit, so you can run what would effectively be a Visual Basic 6.0-type program, directly in the browser, allowing you to bypass all the HTML5/CSS/JS layers we slather on top of whatever framework we're using to make it approach the same UX as a desktop app. It's going to take even more band…

Can pretty much do all that in a Java applet, and have been able to for a long time.

Java applets are not supported anymore anywhere, I think.
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