Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Study: Potatoes can grow on Mars

upi.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 146 posts

Re: Study: Potatoes can grow on Mars

#131

Post by ars »

averagewall wrote: post #111
ars wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A difference in temperature has the same numerical value in both degrees C and K. I know, I used them basically interchangeably in my post. > unless you also use Rankine If people used Fahrenheit more often they would use Rankine more often as well (and yes, I was aware of it before this discussion). > which would be joules in SI Joules is a unit of energy, not temperature. You need to multiply by entropy to get te…

Isn't temperature an energy scaled by the Boltzmann constant? That means it's proportional to the energy of something. Why not just use that energy directly instead of converting it to another unit? That's what I means about using Joules for temperature - divide kelvins by Boltzmann's constant Why on earth would you make absolute zero anything other than 0? That's the major problem of Fahrenheit and the reason Celsiu…

> Isn't temperature an energy scaled by the Boltzmann constant?

Only for an ideal gas. For all other materials the scale number is different. That's why temperature is a unit of its own, and it not just energy.

> Why on earth would you make absolute zero anything other than 0?

I want a "human" oriented scale, that is also tied into SI.

Re: Study: Potatoes can grow on Mars

#132

Post by Gravityloss »

frozenport wrote: post #105
malandrew wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I reckon there is value in only partially simulating the environment and grow lots of potatoes at scale. Take those potatoes that succeed and breed them and repeat. With every iteration, change the environmental conditions to better simulate Mars. Over successive generations, I reckon we can get to potatoes (and other plants) that fair well. The big question is how you optimize this process to assist evolution in mov…

Near impossible, on Earth there are no plants in most of Antarctica. And that has more water than Mars. There is no solution that matches all the constraints.

There arent many minerals available on ice and stuff gets buried under snow quickly too.

Re: Study: Potatoes can grow on Mars

#133

Post by stcredzero »

adrianN wrote: post #104
malandrew wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I reckon there is value in only partially simulating the environment and grow lots of potatoes at scale. Take those potatoes that succeed and breed them and repeat. With every iteration, change the environmental conditions to better simulate Mars. Over successive generations, I reckon we can get to potatoes (and other plants) that fair well. The big question is how you optimize this process to assist evolution in mov…

It will need many generations before you have a plant that can live in a natural martian environment. I don't think you'll be able to get much nutrition out of it anymore.

The less demanding the crops are, in terms of sheltering them from Mars, the cheaper they will be to grow. So it's useful, even if you don't get them to a natural Martian environment. Lowering the temperature and pressure they can grow at would still be a win.

Re: Study: Potatoes can grow on Mars

#134

Post by clinton »

david-given wrote: post #118
clinton wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I ran a similar experiment at home, albeit with a fern rather than potatoes and without simulating martian light. My fern started to perish (and it was a well established plant). The biggest problem I'm facing at the moment is that Mars is extremely nitrogen deficient. https://reprage.com/post/marsarium-9 https://www.reddit.com/r/Colonizemars/comments/5vi52v/inspir...

That's awesome. I want to do that. It'd be interesting to measure the gas composition inside the chamber --- although I suspect the bodging together a gas spectrometer is going to be a bit problematic. This all at at one atmosphere, though, isn't it? I see you have a vacuum pump, but that enclosure doesn't look like it'd be safe to evacuate. I'd like to try low pressures. Intuitively I'd expect hard-skinned plants li…

Yeah one atmosphere, but with the same atmospheric mix as what is on Mars. I was trying to simulate compressing the Martian atmosphere into a pressurised and thermally insulated greenhouse.

My enclosure is only good down to about 0.8 atmospheres, below that the big rubber seal around the door starts to leak. The vacuum pump is used when mixing the atmospheric composition.

Figure the first martian plants would live in a pressurised, insulated greenhouse. There are some neat passively heated designs around.

I think my next experiments will be with legumes trying to fix nitrogen and improve the soil. The way I see it, pressure, warmth and light are all problems for which we have existing solutions. The real question is can we get stuff to grow without importing tons of fertiliser?

Re: Study: Potatoes can grow on Mars

#135

Post by EGreg »

kesselvon wrote: post #32
EGreg wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're going to bring your own soil everywhere? That's the unsustainable part. Terraforming would take thousands of years.

Bring some worms, use human-derived fertilizer. Not terribly impossible.

And how does that scale for the next generations of worms? What will the worms eat?

Re: Study: Potatoes can grow on Mars

#136

Post by dvtv75 »

mhenr18 wrote: post #108
ars wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm onboard for metric - just not for temperature. Just because you manage to deal with C doesn't make it better. Do you see the parallels? You tell Americans all the benefits of metric, they don't care. You tell Europeans all the benefits of Fahrenheit, they don't care. People don't want to change. > It keeps the numbers smaller. No, it doesn't. You need 3 digits since you need the decimal (-20.5).

It's more that you can't tell the difference between 30C and 30.5C. No one ever forecasts temperatures using decimal degrees here in Australia. You only need decimals for highly accurate measurements, but at that point you'd need decimals for Farenheit as well. > You tell Europeans Erm, how about the rest of the world?

Judging by the title of this thread, I think the GP meant to type Europans, not Europeans.

Re: Study: Potatoes can grow on Mars

#137

Post by dvtv75 »

Deestan wrote: post #109
nsxwolf wrote: post #2

"Scientists with the International Potato Center" made my day.

Soon "potato scientist" will be as impressive as - if not more than - "rocket scientist".

Second post on this thread, and sadly it's as much a joke as the first.

From this point on, I'm going to cease saying "it's not rocket science," and start saying "...it's not potato science."

Re: Study: Potatoes can grow on Mars

#138

Post by adrianN »

stcredzero wrote: post #133
adrianN wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will need many generations before you have a plant that can live in a natural martian environment. I don't think you'll be able to get much nutrition out of it anymore.

The less demanding the crops are, in terms of sheltering them from Mars, the cheaper they will be to grow. So it's useful, even if you don't get them to a natural Martian environment. Lowering the temperature and pressure they can grow at would still be a win.

Only if you don't lose too much yield. Look at high mountain plants on Earth, they're hardly edible and live in a much friendlier environment than Mars.

Re: Study: Potatoes can grow on Mars

#140

Post by lazyant »

ars wrote: post #37
Shorel wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure Martians measure temperature in Celsius.

Celsius is equally arbitrary to Fahrenheit. No, Martians measure in Nano Yocto Planck Degrees above Absolute Zero, I hereby dub that unit the Plancktigrade.

arbitrary yes, equally, no.
Post reply on HN