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Nevertheless, She Coded

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131–140 of 398 posts

Re: Nevertheless, She Coded

#131
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google Susan Fowler and/or stop being dishonest.

Single biggest asshole of a company in SV behaving like they always do isn't an argument against the whole industry worldwide.

Yep, the company that only exists by brazenly disregarding the law has no problem with treating employees like shit.

Big surprise :S

Re: Nevertheless, She Coded

#132
post #4

"continued pay disparity" here we go...

It definitely exists. Consider the pay disparity between men who negotiate well versus those who don't. Now look at HR studies that show women rarely negotiate (no links to studies from me right now but I have heard this anecdotally from hiring managers and I have read this before in business mags). Do you see how a problem can evolve?

Do you know whether your equally skilled female colleagues are making less money than you? Have you asked?

There is systemic pay discrimination in development jobs here in Australia so I can only assume it is similar in the US.

Re: Nevertheless, She Coded

#133
post #118

Also because the issue essentially doesnt exist. A victim complex is a real thing and there are real victims. You must acknowledge both, not just the latter (or just the former for that matter.) Sexism is real but severely overblown in my experience.

Is your experience that of a woman? If not, you really have no idea whether it's overblown or not.

By that logic, women can never know if there is sexism because they don't have all that mythical privilege to compare it to. I'd love to see one time ... one time.. there be a focus on the disparity between men and women in waste services, janitorial services, etc. We accept they don't prefer those jobs but suddenly in tech (since it became sexy) its now a problem?

Re: Nevertheless, She Coded

#134

I'm frankly quite surprised by the initial wave of comments disparaging this message. The facts are that women are poorly represented in the tech community[1], and do make less than men[2]. Any attempt to let women feel more accepted and bring about much needed change should be championed, not picked apart and belittled because you feel like you are personally being attacked when people are just asking for help. 1. h…

You really have to ask yourself: Why would women, as a cohort, make the same amount per individual as men? Do you assume that nothing can be different enough between men and women to reasonably justify the statistics? I know of women who are paid more than me in tech, and I know why. I know of women who are paid less than me, and I can think of n reasons why. As for sheer numbers, ask yourself: are there any industri…

It used to be that teaching was predominantly male and programming was predominantly female. Now it's flipped. Did something change in our biology?

Re: Nevertheless, She Coded

#135
post #6

Virtue Signalling and attempting to divide the genders in the opening, before the quotes from women in tech. I expect better from The Practical Dev, you don't have to paint men in a derogatory light to bring up women.

Recognizing the specific contributions and presence of women in the field seems entirely reasonable given how throughout the history of our industry they have been erased. And of course, we're not even a month of a self-implosion event at Uber, where we see a lot of corroboration of workplace harassment claims. If you need to be told "not all men" you can maybe write a chrome extension so that it subs "men" to "men (…

Women's achievements have been acknowledged and cherished throughout history. Marie Curie was the first individual (not woman: human being) to receive two consecutive Nobel prizes. How is this possible in a world that "erases" female achievement? but you know this. I'm sure you could rattle off many more examples than I know of of women whose achievements we've cherished, completely oblivious of the contradiction, if I merely uttered something along the lines of "men invented everything".

You are racketeers, nothing more and nothing less. You're the ones who scare women out of STEM fields by conjuring illusions about how awful it is and how the world will never value their contributions because they are women. It is pure fiction.

However, it's very good for people who want to profit off of women's suffering. You convince them that the world hates them, they recede from participating in it, and you get to point at this as further evidence that the world hates women. Rinse, repeat.

Women are merely the coal for your engine. The true misogynists wear feminist clothing.

Re: Nevertheless, She Coded

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really have to ask yourself: Why would women, as a cohort, make the same amount per individual as men? Do you assume that nothing can be different enough between men and women to reasonably justify the statistics? I know of women who are paid more than me in tech, and I know why. I know of women who are paid less than me, and I can think of n reasons why. As for sheer numbers, ask yourself: are there any industri…

> As for sheer numbers, ask yourself: are there any industries where there are considerably fewer men than women? The answer is, of course, yes. Look at nursing. Do the men employed as nurses make less money on average than their women colleagues?

They are almost always in a union. All men and women who are in a union make equal pay.

This is not necessarily a good thing as unions basically underpay star performers and overpay bad performers. whether or not that is a good thing is your own opinion.

Re: Nevertheless, She Coded

#137
post #4

"continued pay disparity" here we go...

It definitely exists. Consider the pay disparity between men who negotiate well versus those who don't. Now look at HR studies that show women rarely negotiate (no links to studies from me right now but I have heard this anecdotally from hiring managers and I have read this before in business mags). Do you see how a problem can evolve? Do you know whether your equally skilled female colleagues are making less money t…

this just means there is a negotiation skills gap.

there are a million parameters you can compare people on and determine who makes more money in life.

good looking people make more on average too.

If you're bad at negotiation it has nothing to do with being a man or woman. Are we supposed to nationalize or socialize individual negotiations?

Re: Nevertheless, She Coded

#138

I'm frankly quite surprised by the initial wave of comments disparaging this message. The facts are that women are poorly represented in the tech community[1], and do make less than men[2]. Any attempt to let women feel more accepted and bring about much needed change should be championed, not picked apart and belittled because you feel like you are personally being attacked when people are just asking for help. 1. h…

You really have to ask yourself: Why would women, as a cohort, make the same amount per individual as men? Do you assume that nothing can be different enough between men and women to reasonably justify the statistics? I know of women who are paid more than me in tech, and I know why. I know of women who are paid less than me, and I can think of n reasons why. As for sheer numbers, ask yourself: are there any industri…

Replace male with white, women with black, and re-read your argument. Does it still sound sane?

Re: Nevertheless, She Coded

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really have to ask yourself: Why would women, as a cohort, make the same amount per individual as men? Do you assume that nothing can be different enough between men and women to reasonably justify the statistics? I know of women who are paid more than me in tech, and I know why. I know of women who are paid less than me, and I can think of n reasons why. As for sheer numbers, ask yourself: are there any industri…

It used to be that teaching was predominantly male and programming was predominantly female. Now it's flipped. Did something change in our biology?

Programmer salaries went up. Teaching salaries went down.

Re: Nevertheless, She Coded

#140

I just had a conversation with a friend of mine today about the issues she is facing as a "woman in tech". It was some stuff that really surprised me. On today of all days. Treatment of women as full-fledged peers is definitely something that needs better attention in our industry.

Yep. I go to the top university in Canada (wrt being employable in technology) and work with/know many qualified females. I can say that there is only one (out of ~25) that claims she has never experienced any sexism.
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