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Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? (2013)

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Re: Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? (2013)

#131

Post by geofft »

Thrillington wrote: post #13
geofft wrote: post #4

The more I read about this sort of thing (and read comments on these articles), the more I'm told that there are, in fact, innate gender differences, and the PC crowd is censoring important discussions. I'm starting to believe it, and I think that this article is an excellent example of the sort of politically-incorrect research we need to pay attention to.

This article doesn't even begin to posit "innate gender differences" It shows a correlation in confidence displayed to gender, but social conditioning of either confidence display or confidence interpretation are as good an explanation as any innate differences. It's even supported by some research, so it's actually a stronger hypothesis than yours.

The article makes it clear that this is a difference that happens across cultures. If men and women are in fact as equal as star-bellied and non-star-bellied sneetches, why do we see the same social conditioning in the same direction in every culture? Shouldn't half the cultures have the social conditioning in the other direction?

Re: Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? (2013)

#132

Post by rhizome »

gozur88 wrote: post #130
rhizome wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Occam's Razor points to The Iron Law of Oligarchies/Institutions much more than "bad luck."

I agree. However, Michels' Iron Law of Oligarchies doesn't have anything to do with sexism.

True, it could also be more general xenophobia. Not in the clinical sense, of course.

Re: Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? (2013)

#133

Post by edblarney »

pfarnsworth wrote: post #8

Because talking with confidence will go 90% of the way to convincing people that you know what you're talking about. So often I've worked with assholes who talk with such confidence that most people won't bother filtering the garbage coming from their mouths. They just believe it. It's almost eerie how effectively talking with confidence works. It's so effective that when you complain about these charlatans, YOU look…

"This is consistent with the finding that leaderless groups have a natural tendency to elect self-centered, overconfident and narcissistic individuals as leaders"

"It's almost eerie how effectively talking with confidence works."

It may very well be that all other things being equal, a little bit of over confidence is quite a positive indicator of actual success, as opposed to having 'less confidence'.

'Confidence' usually comes along with a bunch of other attributes. If you 'believe you can succeed' - you may be likely to try harder.

A differentiating trait of 'successful people' is that they 'believe they shape the outcomes of their lives' - whereas others don't believe it is so. (Obviously there's a lot just to that).

When you 'believe in yourself' - it's easier to 'have faith' in your own vision - and others take that as a strong signal of authenticity, which is helpful.

Nothing would ever happen were it not for at least a little bit of irrational exuberance.

Not that this justifies blow-hardism.

Re: Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? (2013)

#134

Post by edblarney »

sh6678 wrote: post #76
trustfundbaby wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the risk of being divisive, this will generally only work if you're white, if you're a minority or a woman, there's way more pushback on all those things, even when you're right. Seen it many times.

I don't think its a race issue so much as a physical appearance issue. Height, attractiveness, facial structure, body size. Certain people look "presidential" and they command a lot of automatic respect just based on appearance. There are plenty of minority people that have this quality. There are plenty of white males lacking this quality. Look-ism is the huge issue that is almost never talked about. In most compani…

"Look-ism" this is huge.

The more 'interaction' and 'first impressions' need to be made, the more 'look-ism' is essential.

Lawyers, bankers, execs etc..

Tech is even getting a little bit like this, with some shops getting a little to 'beardy' and 'tuquey' and 'hoody' for me :)

Re: Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? (2013)

#135

Post by edblarney »

ktRolster wrote: post #17
Nomentatus wrote: post #10

Research shows a very strong correlation between mere height and who ends up at the very height of corporate leadership. It's an ape thing, not a competence thing.

That is one of those "correlation is not causation" things. You need to dig deeper to find the actual causation. One of the best CEOs I've known was quite short. For example, it could be that growing up tall gives you more confidence (because you are better at sports all the time), and more confidence makes it easier to rise in corporate leadership. But we don't know for sure until we study it more.

If you watch a high school cafeteria for one hour you know exactly why taller people are promoted to leadership.

The same reason they tend to be whiter, a little better looking, more athletic.

Interesting paradox: for Men, girth is actually good. Carry a few extra pounds, and it's good.

For women - inverse. Skinny women earn more.

Think of this: every single social interaction you have - with the guy at the watercooler, to meetings, to presentations - everyone is 'sizing each other up' subconciously. They are determining where they belong in the pecking order. Usually only from observable traits.

Re: Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? (2013)

#136

Post by 0xcde4c3db »

projektir wrote: post #129
Shubley wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's also not forget ageism, heightism, voice-ism (positive affect of rich voices).

And ableism and... There probably needs to be a general purpose word for this...

I gather kyriarchy was coined to serve this purpose, but I don't think it's widely used.

Re: Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? (2013)

#137

Post by flukus »

undersuit wrote: post #92
omalleyt wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hunter-gatherers generally didn't store meat. Therefore, when the best hunter in the group brought home a large animal, he shared it with all. Likewise, there were few physical possessions or need for such, and so these were shared too. But egalitarian? Not a chance. Studies show that even modern hunters expend enormous energy and risk their lives hunting over the real prize: access to mates.

>Hunter-gatherers generally didn't store meat. The diversity of cured meats around the world makes this statement suspect. I don't see an agrarian society taking time to discover how to cure meat... why would they, grain stores easier. Yet every culture has various kinds of preserved meat; Pemmican, European sausages, Kiviak, Hongeohoe, etc.

Most curing methods weren't widely available to hunter gatherers because the required trade goods like salt. Dehydration was about the only option.

Re: Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? (2013)

#138

Post by dlwdlw »

Many executives cultivate this ignorance. When you kill someone accidentally its manslaughter, when it's purposeful it's murder. A person is dead either way, but the punishment for incompetence is lesser than that for malice. By cultivating ignorance and incompetence in key areas, people can dodge the consequences of risky or unethical behavior yet still receive the benefits by nature of being the "leader"

Re: Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? (2013)

#139

Post by candiodari »

mulmen wrote: post #54
pfarnsworth wrote: post #8

Because talking with confidence will go 90% of the way to convincing people that you know what you're talking about. So often I've worked with assholes who talk with such confidence that most people won't bother filtering the garbage coming from their mouths. They just believe it. It's almost eerie how effectively talking with confidence works. It's so effective that when you complain about these charlatans, YOU look…

I have noticed the same phenomenon. Since humans are social creatures I think there is an evolutionary bias to avoid decision paralysis and just follow whoever seems to be the most confident. We are better off in general if we just cooperate and take action instead of deliberating every decision so people seem to be wired to just accept the first thing that appears to be reasonable.

Since the alternative would often be a "deer in headlights" situation, I bet that's even the right thing to do. Reacting in group beats reacting by yourself, even if the resulting reactions are less intelligent.

Re: Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? (2013)

#140

Post by Arizhel »

pfarnsworth wrote: post #8

Because talking with confidence will go 90% of the way to convincing people that you know what you're talking about. So often I've worked with assholes who talk with such confidence that most people won't bother filtering the garbage coming from their mouths. They just believe it. It's almost eerie how effectively talking with confidence works. It's so effective that when you complain about these charlatans, YOU look…

>Because talking with confidence will go 90% of the way to convincing people that you know what you're talking about. So often I've worked with assholes who talk with such confidence that most people won't bother filtering the garbage coming from their mouths. They just believe it.

Yeah, sometimes I wonder if I do as well as I do in my career because I talk like this, not because I really know what I'm doing...

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