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Mark Zuckerberg: Building Global Community

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Re: Mark Zuckerberg: Building Global Community

#131

Post by ciconia »

jdoliner wrote: post #107

Copying over my comment from the other thread that sparked some interesting debate: I find this letter to be deeply cynical. There's a baked in assumption that a global community is a good thing and that the only possible reason to resist it is because you're being left behind by its benefits. I don't think that's true and I certainly don't think it should be assumed a priori. There are people in this country, and ev…

> If we're not willing to accept that stance than we're forcing people into a global community that matches our vision for the future, not theirs.

I would posit that presenting globalisation as a choice forced on unsuspecting victims is itself cynical. You of all people should know - your a tech guy. You are aware of how technology removes economic, cultural, lingual, even physical walls. There's no going back from globalisation. Accept it and go on with your life.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg: Building Global Community

#132

Post by spicyj »

mmel wrote: post #125
spicyj wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work at Facebook. Can you provide another example link for something that's "public" but you can't access? Most public content is accessible without an account.

Any publically shared video will prompt me to log in and not let me view it https://www.facebook.com/KSEE24/videos/10154851102274927/ as an example

Thanks for the reply! Just to check: At that link I see a "To see more from KSEE24 News on Facebook, log in or create an account." dialog which has a "Not Now" link that mostly collapses the dialog.

Do you see the same thing or something else?

Re: Mark Zuckerberg: Building Global Community

#133

Post by rfrank »

lazaroclapp wrote: post #118
jdoliner wrote: post #107

Copying over my comment from the other thread that sparked some interesting debate: I find this letter to be deeply cynical. There's a baked in assumption that a global community is a good thing and that the only possible reason to resist it is because you're being left behind by its benefits. I don't think that's true and I certainly don't think it should be assumed a priori. There are people in this country, and ev…

What are those "real reasons"? And are they against globalization in the abstract or against specific models of global institutions? I find being against globalization in the abstract very strange, because it takes arbitrary historical divisions of human-kind and tries to set them in stone. A global human community almost always seems like a more natural positive future than a fragmented system of hostile parties def…

> Maybe I am lacking some context or some value system that the anti-globalist have and which might have its merits, and if so I would love to hear the argument, but to me the idea of "this person is more valuable or interesting to me because it was born my neighbor than anyone born a hundred miles away" seems to lack some ethical foundation.

Why? People care more about what happens around them. I care more about housing issues in the Bay Area than I do the same problem in New York. I care more about Oakland crime rates than Chicago crime rates. People care more about things that directly impact them and those close to them. If people see their hometowns and communities falling apart when the main industry moves overseas, and only receive second-order benefits like slightly reduced price of good a few years later, what incentive do they have to support globalism?

Re: Mark Zuckerberg: Building Global Community

#134

Post by brilliantcode »

onewaystreet wrote: post #121
brilliantcode wrote: post #111

Reading this article, one does raise questions about Facebook's past practices which in my opinion, is becoming very aggressive and contradicting. I don't think I need to call them out in particular, just look at all opinion pieces on various analysis of Facebook's numbers with a google search. I think the HN community have discussed at great lengths and even Veritasium's video have talked about some of the things th…

Facebook's business today is completely different from what it was 10 years ago. Mobile ads now account for 80% of its total ad revenue (on total revenue of $27.64 billion). A lot of people questioned if Facebook could make any money from mobile when it went public.

Interesting but yet unclear how much of a dent this really puts against Google's monopoly. I'm not even sure if mobile ads is sustainble, just as the desktop's invasion of AdBlock, I feel like it's not a solid revenue model going forward.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/petercohan/2016/11/25/does-faceb...

It also seems like they don't make it clear where these revenues are coming from.

Apart from large brands, I wonder how effective FB ad campaigns are. How do you measure ROI and attribute it to FB ad campaigns?

I feel like this is Nielsen ratings all over again on a dwindling platform. Inaccessible to rest but large brands with money to splash around. Google Adwords seem more comprehensive and diversified. $4.5 USD per FB user is ridiculous in my opinion. FB users aren't looking at Ads unless they are forced to. Google users want highly relevant ads. This discrepancy explains the CTR between the two...yet FB is considered right up there with Google...it just doesn't make sense.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg: Building Global Community

#135

Post by ThrustVectoring »

lazaroclapp wrote: post #118
jdoliner wrote: post #107

Copying over my comment from the other thread that sparked some interesting debate: I find this letter to be deeply cynical. There's a baked in assumption that a global community is a good thing and that the only possible reason to resist it is because you're being left behind by its benefits. I don't think that's true and I certainly don't think it should be assumed a priori. There are people in this country, and ev…

What are those "real reasons"? And are they against globalization in the abstract or against specific models of global institutions? I find being against globalization in the abstract very strange, because it takes arbitrary historical divisions of human-kind and tries to set them in stone. A global human community almost always seems like a more natural positive future than a fragmented system of hostile parties def…

Exit rights are extraordinarily important for maintaining negotiation power with the powerful institutions in your life. If you don't like the way England is doing things, you can leave - and this puts a limit on what England does, since it doesn't want you to leave.

If you don't like Facebook or other global institutions, there's no effective way to opt out.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg: Building Global Community

#136

Post by lazaroclapp »

appleflaxen wrote: post #124
lazaroclapp wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are those "real reasons"? And are they against globalization in the abstract or against specific models of global institutions? I find being against globalization in the abstract very strange, because it takes arbitrary historical divisions of human-kind and tries to set them in stone. A global human community almost always seems like a more natural positive future than a fragmented system of hostile parties def…

For many people in the US, I think the reason is that they see globalization as a threat to their livelihood.

As in, a threat to their wealth and earnings? Sure, that's an issue, but is not an issue with globalization in the abstract. In fact, the U.S. benefits enormously of globalization in total material terms (U.S. produced goods and U.S. brands are pervasive through the world and have been for half a century, and that generates tons of wealth for the nation). "Yeah, but that gain gets mostly concentrated at the top while working class people go unemployed and risk homelessness" one might say. But that is the issue, not globalization. A more progressive taxation scheme, a coordinated investment into infrastructure, improved access to education and even things like UBI can all be combined to solve that problem. Better wealth distribution without negating all the wealth created by globalization.

Globalization-in-current-practice has a lot of specific problems: wealth inequality, environmental and labor laws race to the bottom, etc. But those are things to work on without throwing globalization away (the same way that propaganda on social networks can be tackled without either: "ban social media" or "internet sovereignty: internet propaganda for the national government where you live and no one else"). There are big issues with specific models of globalization. But nationalism flaws are inherent, a nationalist utopia is strictly worse than a globalist utopia, and historically nationalist reality has been worse than globalist reality (e.g. for all its problems, the E.U. beats what came before it).

Re: Mark Zuckerberg: Building Global Community

#137

Post by gydfi »

wilg wrote: post #83
gydfi wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A way I'd prefer: quit letting people share news on facebook. Heck, let's go back to text-only status updates and I can go back to reading what my acquaintances are eating. That would be much more pleasant than today's facebook.

How would you like them to share the news?

Why would I want people sharing news?

If I want to read about what's going on with the world, I'll read a news site. If I want to know what's going on with my friends' lives, I'll read facebook.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg: Building Global Community

#138

Post by Spooky23 »

jdoliner wrote: post #7

I find this letter to be deeply cynical. There's a baked in assumption that a global community is a good thing and that the only possible reason to resist it is because you're being left behind by its benefits. I don't think that's true and I certainly don't think it should be assumed a priori. There are people in this country, and every where in the world, who don't want globalization. And it's not because they have…

It helps that globalization is helpful to the fortunes of Zuck and his business.

Call me an asshole, but I'm a nationalist. The amazing advances in Asia and Africa's standard of living have hurt my countrymen... why should I be ok with that?

Re: Mark Zuckerberg: Building Global Community

#140

Post by lazaroclapp »

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #135
lazaroclapp wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are those "real reasons"? And are they against globalization in the abstract or against specific models of global institutions? I find being against globalization in the abstract very strange, because it takes arbitrary historical divisions of human-kind and tries to set them in stone. A global human community almost always seems like a more natural positive future than a fragmented system of hostile parties def…

Exit rights are extraordinarily important for maintaining negotiation power with the powerful institutions in your life. If you don't like the way England is doing things, you can leave - and this puts a limit on what England does, since it doesn't want you to leave. If you don't like Facebook or other global institutions, there's no effective way to opt out.

You honestly think that quitting Facebook is harder than changing countries? Opting out from your country is currently near impossible for most people, and the only reason it is possible for the few who can is globalism. The place where moving between countries is the easiest is the E.U. and that's precisely because of the supra-national structure.

I am not a centralist when it comes to the official international institutions precisely because the no opt-out you describe (which is true for official institutions, not so much for Facebook). But at the same time, without international cooperation and with "every nation for itself" we end up much worse off at a personal and species level.

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