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Microsoft open-sources Graph Engine

graphengine.io

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Re: Microsoft open-sources Graph Engine

#131

Post by pjmlp »

klibertp wrote: post #127
pjmlp wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have the same issue in other sandbox models. Old style IPC leads to information leaks and is another attack vector. You cannot do that on Android for example, Google explicitly removed UNIX V IPC from their Linux fork. You are expected to use TCP/IP or Android RPCs, assuming the app has android.permission.INTERNET permission. Also using fork/exec() on Android isn't a good idea, http://stackoverflow.com/questions/…

> You have the same issue in other sandbox models. Would what PC-BSD does with jails qualify as an exception? > So people are complaining about Microsoft adopting what is already best practices on the other desktop/mobile sandbox models. Now I'm curious - weren't people complaining when the other sandbox systems were designed/created? It really looks a bit inconvenient (I'm referring to the SO explanation of what And…

I would need to look int PC-BSD, never used it.

As for the other sandbox models, the only people I have seen complaining thus far, has been in sites like HN, I never heard any of our customers complaining about those restrictions, or caring about them.

Re: Microsoft open-sources Graph Engine

#132

Post by manigandham »

akiselev wrote: post #116
manigandham wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MS was definitely not becoming irrelevant. The vast majority of enterprise software is written in .NET and the MS stack runs millions of businesses. They are evolving the framework to be faster and cross-platform based on external pressures but in the last few years they have managed to overtake several of the other language/framework options to again be one of the top choices for new projects. They aren't catching u…

> The vast majority of enterprise software is written in .NET and the MS stack runs millions of businesses. What data are you basing this statement on? I'm genuinely curious because the vast majority of indicators I've seen clearly show that Java is by far the #1 enterprise language. Greenfield projects are probably far more likely to choose .Net but for now, there is a hell of a lot more important legacy Java code t…

Decades of combined experience between me and about a dozen of my developer friends working in F50 companies. Java is definitely common as well, but .NET has an advantage because of Windows, Office, Exchange, Sharepoint, Active Directory and more, along with the ecosystem of C#/VB with Visual Studio for development and SQL Server for database needs with all of its analytics and reporting services.

Re: Microsoft open-sources Graph Engine

#133

Post by erichocean »

v-yadli wrote: post #40
wyldfire wrote: post #2

I find that very abstract software packages like this are difficult to visualize without an example. This page does not offer one, but TFM does -- see [1]. Also note that TFM describes the fact that this is Windows-only. That makes it substantially less interesting, IMO. [1] https://www.graphengine.io/docs/manual/index.html#what-is-ge

Dev here. Cross-platform for Linux/BSD is on the way, and it's already in the repo now.

How well would this run traditional graph algorithms like PageRank?

Re: Microsoft open-sources Graph Engine

#134

Post by Kipters »

WayneBro wrote: post #39
Kipters wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to elaborate on the HTTP part? You just need the "Internet (client)" capability in your manifest, it's even enabled by default when you create a new project Moreover, win32 desktop apps can use the AppService mechanism exposed by UWP apps (but cannot host an AppService themselves, just connect to UWP-hosted AppServices)

Give it a try. You can't send requests to `localhost` or `127.0.0.1` at all. AppService is largely useless for IPC between UWP and Win32 since the UWP app can't initiate a request to the Win32 app. Another thing you can't do, which is really annoying: UWP won't let your code start an external process and use standard i/o pipes to communicate with it. The only possibility is to use files for IPC and you'd have to have…

Wow, it's weird I never actually tried to send a request to localhost on UWP, usually only to other PCs on the network during development. I didn't know that.

The Win32 app can connect to the UWP AppService, on PC you can also bundle a desktop app in your package and start it when the UWP app is launched. This desktop app can then act as a bridge between your UWP app and the "legacy" world, offloading the "dirty" stuff to the slave desktop app. It actually works, I used this for getting the taskbar to blink in my side-project for a messaging app.

Re: Microsoft open-sources Graph Engine

#135

Post by pedasmith »

Someone1234 wrote: post #49
WayneBro wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give it a try. You can't send requests to `localhost` or `127.0.0.1` at all. AppService is largely useless for IPC between UWP and Win32 since the UWP app can't initiate a request to the Win32 app. Another thing you can't do, which is really annoying: UWP won't let your code start an external process and use standard i/o pipes to communicate with it. The only possibility is to use files for IPC and you'd have to have…

> However UWP can't listen for changes in those same files, so it's a real PITA. It can via the ContentChanged event see this example: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/39737147/how-can-i-watch-... > Give it a try. You can't send requests to `localhost` or `127.0.0.1` at all. Luckily getting the local IP address is easy enough from UWP: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/33770429/how-do-i-find-th... That will work s…

Hey! I didn't implement the loopback restriction in WinRT, but I sure was one of the PMs in the network team when it happened.

As it turns out, pretty much everyone on the thread is right. Localhost is special on a network: it's the only machine that that you're guaranteed actually exists, and is therefore qualified as a high-value target for the bad guys.

I hadn't heard about the printer creating a local HTTP server, but it sure doesn't surprise me one bit.

At the same time, we could identify companies with real products that we wanted in the WinRT ecosystem but where the company already had an architecture that assumed that they could connect to localhost. It was a very painful call, but in the end we decided that security was more important than these companies.

We decided against a checkbox because users already have too many checkboxes, and mostly don't understand any of them.

If knowing the current local IP address gives you access to localhost, that would be a bug. More likely, you see that it works because you're running in a debugger, where the access to localhost is restriction isn't currently enforced.

And for goodness sakes everyone -- stop restricting yourself to IPv4! IPv6 is a real and growing thing! We made a bunch of fixes in Windows just so that the WinRT network APIs would work perfectly without ever knowing or caring whether you were going over IPv4 or IPv6.

Re: Microsoft open-sources Graph Engine

#136

Post by EGreg »

etelej wrote: post #93
EGreg wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I'm pretty sure you two are the only ones.

Nope. Same here. However, it's just Chrome on Android that doesn't recognize the CA, even the native android browser is okay. Bizarre, may be coz they have an incomplete cert chain https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=www.graphengi... and chrome on android has had issues with that

I was being sarcastic :)

Re: Microsoft open-sources Graph Engine

#137

Post by sblom »

pjmlp wrote: post #86
PatentTroll wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get the outrage over the rumored UWP only windows. There is no indication that MS would drop win32. This is a separate product, likely for a particular market. It's more of an iPad competitor than a Windows desktop replacement. So don't use it if it offends you, that's OK. I don't think this is all that forceful really.

That is what project centipede is all about, a migration path from Win32 to UWP. I don't care, as I would rather see a modern sanboxed OO ABI make Win32 drink beers with Carbon.

Project Centennial https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=516...

Re: Microsoft open-sources Graph Engine

#138

Post by orionblastar »

webmaven wrote: post #61
brilliantcode wrote: post #58

Microsoft of 2017 makes me forget about Microsoft of 1997. It's insane how a shakeup of CEO and new cultural shift can seemingly add another major boost to it's brand. I welcome open source, eventually, I believe that it will eat commercial software, if the right economic incentives are in place. Microsoft may be signaling this to the market.

> Microsoft of 2017 makes me forget about Microsoft of 1997. Never Forget.

Trust but verify.

Microsoft has changed over the years and is not the same company in 1997. It used to hate FOSS projects and now they contribute to them. MSFT used to hate Linux and now they embrace it adding Ubuntu support to Windows 10.

Sure never forget, but if you see changes for the better, learn how to forgive. If they go back to the way they were in 1997, just speak up about it.

Microsoft adapted to tablets with Surface and they seem to do well for artists using pressure sensitive pens.

Re: Microsoft open-sources Graph Engine

#139

Post by owl57 »

pjmlp wrote: post #84
WayneBro wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not yet. Their next strategy is to try and use ARM (again) to shove UWP down your throat. I love Windows but I seriously will not touch UWP until they loosen up the sandbox restrictions so that I can do regular IPC with a win32 desktop app. You can't even send an HTTP request to a little node.js Web server running on your desktop right now. Fuck that. I'm not buying into it.

I love sandboxes, on Windows, Mac OS X, Android, iOS ,Chrome OS X. One day my GNU/Linux installs will also only run sandboxed applications. I guess you don't use either an iOS or Android device, because you cannot do regular UNIX IPC on them.

IIRC iOS lets you connect to other apps on 127.0.0.1 just fine. But it won't work in the obvious use case of a foreground client and a background server without additional hacks, because the server can be suspended and the connection attempt alone won't wake it up.

Re: Microsoft open-sources Graph Engine

#140

Post by floopidydoopidy »

dang wrote: post #107
floopidydoopidy wrote: post #17

Although astroturfing doesn't seem to be a problem on HN, I'd really appreciate it if you didn't do it.

Since you've done this repeatedly and ignored our request to stop, we've banned your account. Actual astroturfing, when it occurs, is an abuse of HN that we crack down hard on. Defending this community against gaming and abuse is a huge priority for us. Any user who thinks they might be seeing it happen on HN should email us right away (hn@ycombinator.com) so we can investigate. Imaginary astroturfing—the bug that ca…

It's hardly imaginary, you silly silly person.
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