A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France • Hacker News Board

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#131

Post by blibble » Mon, Jan 16, 2017, 4:59 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #121

nkkollaw wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's "currently inflicting generational economic damage on themselves"? Would you do an ELI5?

Brexit! When the Prime Minister was asked what this means, she replied with "Brexit means Brexit." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36782922 When people have asked specific questions like "am I going to be able to continue to live here?" or "am I going to continue to receive scientific funding that is distributed by the EU?" or "how is this going to affect my business?", they haven't recieved answers. In the wor…

> When people have asked specific questions like "am I going to be able to continue to live here?" ... they haven't recieved answers.

the UK Government is has stated it will guarantee the right for EU citizens to remain, if the same right is given to Britons in rEU, however the European Union refuses to engage on the issue ("no negotiation without notification")

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#132

Post by scrollaway » Mon, Jan 16, 2017, 5:00 PM UTC

dest wrote: post #116

bsaul wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom of speech issues in France ?? I'd say a good reason not to come here is bureaucracy and taxes, but not issues with freedom of speech... Do you have some facts you'd like to share ?

Some opinions are not only socially incorrect, they can get you to jail. Examples of forbidden topics: homosexuals, non-white people, jews, saying that you don't need health insurance… Of course not endorsing anything about those topics, just saying that forbiding any debate on those topics may not be a long-term solution to solve those societal questions. We get the popular far-right party FN for some reason I think…

You either have no idea what you're talking about or you're lying on purpose. Or both. Nobody has been jailed for "saying they don't need health insurance".

Our freedom of speech, like in the rest of europe, is slightly more restrictive than in the US (as in: there is a concept of restricted hate speech) but the fact that the FN even exists should go a long way to showcase that you don't get jailed for stuff like that.

And in the future, if you're going to bring extraordinary claims to HN, bring a damn source.

Edit to your edit: I don't think you yourself have read those sources you linked.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#133

Post by esquevin » Mon, Jan 16, 2017, 5:00 PM UTC

bankim wrote: post #82

What are salaries like for mid-senior level software engineers working in tech companies in Paris? What are the tax rates i.e pay after taxes?

You'll definitely earn way less, but you'll be entitled to a lot of vacations (5~7 weeks of paid vacations). The Americans I know that went to work to France don't want to go back

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#134

Post by fvdessen » Mon, Jan 16, 2017, 5:01 PM UTC

bsaul wrote: post #60

hartator wrote: post #51

Don't go there. The limit of freedom of speech is real and can block you. Even when you run a startup that has nothing to do with local politics or anything controversial. Plus, we are still in "state of emergency", that gives the state more rights than the patriot act. Go to the US, Canada or New Zealand.

Freedom of speech issues in France ?? I'd say a good reason not to come here is bureaucracy and taxes, but not issues with freedom of speech... Do you have some facts you'd like to share ?

If I remember correctly, You are more or less responsible for whatever appears on your website. If your users use your service for forbidden speech, then you are liable.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#135

Post by 0xfaded » Mon, Jan 16, 2017, 5:03 PM UTC

thibaut_barrere wrote: post #20

adamnemecek wrote: post #15

Isn't it like super hard to setup a startup in France? That being said, the talent coming out of all the grandes ecoles seems definitely underutilized.

As an interim CTO who helped a number of clients find good hires, I can say I'm definitely under the impression that a large part of grandes ecoles talents is siphoned every year by FB, Google, MS and the likes (which makes it harder for new startups to hire).

I work at a startup and my cash comp is inline with cash at Google et all. The expected value of equity (read: last valuation prices) is also in line but obviously illiquid.

I got ripped off at the first two startups I worked for but learned my lessons.

Don't be busy, create obvious value along the actual company line.

You're most likely not working for the founders, it's really the stakeholders and at least some of these have money. Make sure the money is found for your salary (believe me they find the money for the lawyers).

Be prepared to move if necessary.

It's an uneasy compromise at first, but eventually it becomes clear the best interest is not having the best employees constantly flirting with a healthy stream of recruiters.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#136

Post by jlangenauer » Mon, Jan 16, 2017, 5:04 PM UTC

blibble wrote: post #131

pjc50 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brexit! When the Prime Minister was asked what this means, she replied with "Brexit means Brexit." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36782922 When people have asked specific questions like "am I going to be able to continue to live here?" or "am I going to continue to receive scientific funding that is distributed by the EU?" or "how is this going to affect my business?", they haven't recieved answers. In the wor…

> When people have asked specific questions like "am I going to be able to continue to live here?" ... they haven't recieved answers. the UK Government is has stated it will guarantee the right for EU citizens to remain, if the same right is given to Britons in rEU, however the European Union refuses to engage on the issue ("no negotiation without notification")

It most certainly has not: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jan/09/uk-eu-citize...

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#137

Post by mootothemax » Mon, Jan 16, 2017, 5:04 PM UTC

hacker_9 wrote: post #79

jlangenauer wrote: post #5

Apropos of this, I was in Paris recently at a startup event, and was pleasantly shocked at the sheer number of startups and people I saw doing things. This is a good move by the French, and will help attract entrepreneurs away from other countries (particularly like those just across the channel currently inflicting generational economic damage on themselves.)

As someone from the UK, my main reason for not moving anywhere else in Europe is the language barrier. I'm not even sure I'm capable of learning another language; 5 years in school trying to learn French + German, and can still only put together about two sentences. From what I remember, no one else seemed to really pick up the languages either.

>As someone from the UK, my main reason for not moving anywhere else in Europe is the language barrier. I'm not even sure I'm capable of learning another language

I moved to Poland from the UK yonks ago, and have equally disastrous - if not worse - language skills as you.

Not long after arriving, I accidentally got a job at a startup, and I'd been led to believe everything was done in English internally: communications; client emails; heck, even variable names in the code, all was in English and I had nothing to fear.

This turned out to be a slight exaggeration; anything in English was the rare exception, rather than the rule.

You know what, though? Even without lessons and fully resenting Polish's grammar, you learn really quick. You also won't be facing this alone; as long as you're actually capable of getting the job done, plenty of local language speakers in your office will bend over backwards to encourage and help you.

Don't let language be the only thing holding you back. If I had my time again, I'd let things like bureaucracy and road safety guide my decision rather than what noises come out of peoples' mouths.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#138

Post by pyvpx » Mon, Jan 16, 2017, 5:05 PM UTC

kogepathic wrote: post #70

spyspy wrote: post #30

Does anyone know if there similar opportunities for other European countries?

Germany offers a special visa for people who want to be self-employed. [0] Additionally, if you have a Bachelor/Master degree in STEM, you can easily get a Blue Card if you receive a contract paying over 50,800 EUR/year. [1] Lower salaries would still enable you to obtain a regular work visa (which is specific to the job title and company). I've heard Germany is a difficult country to establish a company (GmbH). I ca…

I moved to Berlin almost three years ago, and extended/expanded my company here. I am not a start-up, though I am developing a product, but more of a one-man consulting shop.

Getting a self-employed VISA is not easy unless you have some serious credentials. My partner has three degrees, two post-graduate, from highly regarded US universities; an extensive profile of speaking engagements; a very, very solid financial standing; and a solid business plan. The IHK (who reviews all business plans for self-employed applications) still said "No" but begrudgingly gave the green-light when presented with a book contract from a well known technical publisher.

I have no degrees, but a financially viable consulting business of some years, and a lengthy professional background. Three years later, over 12 foreigners office appointments, a UG (affectionately known as the mini-GmbH) with over 12K founding capital, a high-priced lawyer, over a 120K in USDEUR transfers, and a visit from the police to confiscate my passport over Christmas, my self-employment visa is no further along than the day I first submitted it.

Still, incomparably better than US immigrations. I'm certainly stuck in some weird, exceptional state that has confused even my lawyer.

Consider Berlin. It is wonderful here, definitely. Rents are rising, however, and (sadly, in my opinion) you do not need to learn German. I know of far too many people who have spent numerous years here without speaking more than a phrase or two of deutsche.

If you want to start a company/be self-employed DO NOT follow the (typische amerikanische) DIY process. Factor in costs for tax advisers and lawyers.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#139

Post by chrisper » Mon, Jan 16, 2017, 5:05 PM UTC

intralizee wrote: post #85

I would love to go to France. I'm in US right now, 1 semester left for degree and have interned at a respectable company. I wonder if they're looking for experienced engineers over fresh ones. I've read so much that work life and culture is so much better in France, so heres hoping...

You know, a lot of CS people in the US seem to really love the US and say stuff like "it sucks not to be in the US." They usually mention how they can afford everything since they make so much money and how they prefer to work 600 hours a week instead of having forced days off and that health care through Employer is so much better than through government.

Admittedly, this was on Reddit, which is just a huge echo chamber, which led me to stop using it.

However, I wonder how your point of view on this subject is?

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#140

Post by partisan » Mon, Jan 16, 2017, 5:05 PM UTC

tonfa wrote: post #95

partisan wrote: post #61

So no children? It only mentions the spouse.

I think it's covered: The “skills and talents”, “EU Blue Card,” “employee on assignment” and “scientist-researcher” temporary residence permits provide full rights to a “private and family life” permit for family members accompanying a non-EU national. (from http://ec.europa.eu/immigration/what-do-i-need-before-leavin... )

Thank you. I will now plead the case to my wife.