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Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

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Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#131

Post by ebiester »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #114
pessimizer wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That proves true the myth of our moral superiority to the Nazi regime, but not the myth of our moral superiority.

To the Nazi regime. To the Communist regimes. To Turkey (Armenian genocide). To Rwanda. To Serbia. But not to everyone, I'll agree.

Is the Armenian genocide worse than the Trail of Tears, for example?

(I'm not trying to discredit or diminish the Armenian genocide here, mind you, but rather point out we still have someone who committed genocide by the same terms on American money.)

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#132

Post by nanistheonlyist »

clarkmoody wrote: post #122

One of the many reasons to oppose war. Others include: + Control of the economy, price controls, rationing, shortages + Suspension of most (all?) of the Bill of Rights + Wholesale slaughter of civilian populations abroad (so much for "all men are created equal ... with unalienable rights") But perhaps the most nefarious is the idea that "we all pulled together and sacrificed to defeat the enemy." The government schoo…

We did not choose war willingly, the japanese govt made the choice for us when they attacked pearl harbor.

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#133

Post by [deleted] »

MaxfordAndSons wrote: post #101
akhilcacharya wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were disallowed from fighting in the Pacific theatre, so they all fought in Europe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/442nd_Infantry_Regiment_(Unite... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Inouye#Medal_of_Honor_c...

Interesting to note, this went both ways: my grandfather was a naturalized German immigrant, and was sent to the Pacific when drafted because he was disallowed from fighting in Europe. But of course, for some reason, German Americans weren't interned...

[deleted]

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#134

Post by wildmusings »

evan_ wrote: post #18
johndunne wrote: post #10

With today's political climate I can't help but think that something like this could happen again.

It kind of already is happening in the US right now in the form of "Family detention centers" intended to detain non-citizens slated for deportation. If Trump's administration seriously plans on "rounding up" millions of people for deportation, they'll have to be lodged somewhere while they are tried (assuming they're granted trials, who knows anymore) and travel arrangements are made. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/…

How preposterous. We have rules as a country for who is allowed to enter and stay. There is no country in the world that will allow you to stay illegally.

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#135

Post by jlillyreed »

lomnakkus wrote: post #126
bildung wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, it's real, just not as real as we like to think. Between "imprison people of Japanese ancestry for the rest of the war, then free them" and "imprison people of Jewish ancestry, then kill them", there is a real moral difference. They are both wrong, but they are not equal. Of course, but Germany belongs to the "West", too. I think GP alluded to e.g. human rights in China.

I must be missing something, but China is actually doing "bad things" now. The Japanese internment happened ~75 years ago. I like to think that the "West" has progressed since then. (That's not say that everything's just fine and dandy, but there is a clear difference between the West and, say, China today.)

> I like to think that the "West" has progressed since then.

You might like to think so, but you'd be VERY VERY wrong. This year Trump surrogates began justifying their proposal to create a muslim registry by saying that the Japanese Internment gave precedence for their desired actions.

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#136

Post by billbrown »

fasteddie31003 wrote: post #44
mgkimsal wrote: post #5

"The very fact that no sabotage has taken place to date is a disturbing and confirming indication that such action will be taken." THAT is disturbing "logic".

There was the Niihau Incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niihau_incident where Hawaiians of Japanese descent helped a crashed Japanese pilot. But then ended up killing the pilot.

In a more narrative style - https://www.damninteresting.com/incident-on-niihau-island/

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#137

Post by kibwen »

brilliantcode wrote: post #117

The Japanese pre-Cold War were treated unfairly but this pales in comparison to the many hell the Asian region have suffered under Japanese Imperialism. At least they didn't get gassed like the Jews did. At least they didn't get bayonetted like the Chinese in Nanjing en masse in graves or a military unit performing live surgery on them or forcing hundreds of thousands of young Korean women to sexual slavery. It didn'…

I don't think anyone's trying to argue a strict equivalence between Japanese internment and the Holocaust or the Rape of Nanking. We can identify injustices without forcing them to meet the standards of history's greatest atrocities, especially if we want to pretend that we hold ourselves to higher standards.

That said, it's chilling to wonder what would have happened if command had ordered the mass execution of the imprisoned. Would the military have had the integrity to refuse the command? I can't imagine that it would have been impossible to find friends or family of the thousands of Pearl Harbor victims who would have been willing to carry out such an order.

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#138

Post by susan_hall »

Regarding Muslims in the USA, I worry about those in government who might revive this line of thinking:

"The very fact that no sabotage has taken place to date is a disturbing and confirming indication that such action will be taken."

— General John L. DeWitt, head of the U.S. Army’s Western Defense Command

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#139

Post by anon1094 »

krapp wrote: post #113
randcraw wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Japanese Americans look different from "the average American", while German Americans don't. Also, Germans had been immigrating into the US since the year 1700 and intermarried widely with other groups. So it would be very hard to decide where to draw a line and say someone is "sufficiently German" to be interned.

This is entirely supposition on my part, from someone far too young to have lived through any of it, but I suspect it's less that Japanese Americans looked different, and more that Japan was a non-Christian culture, which made it easier to dehumanize people of Japanese descent. The Nazis might have been evil but at least they were "like us" in that they shared a common heritage, religion and linguistic root with Amer…

Do you really believe that it was because Japan is dominantly a non-Christian culture and not because they look different? No, it was because they weren't white. And America has, for a very long time and even now, been painted as a mostly white and african american culture.

Even in modern Japan itself ironically enough, it's hard for some people to really picture non-white and non-african Americans as Americans. The word 外国人 (gaikokujin) really only applies to foreigners of European and African ancestry. I believe it's hard for them to picture those Americans as Americans simply because of the image that has been painted of the country.

Sincerely, A non-asian non-african non-white American interested in Japanese culture

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#140

Post by astrodust »

nanistheonlyist wrote: post #132
clarkmoody wrote: post #122

One of the many reasons to oppose war. Others include: + Control of the economy, price controls, rationing, shortages + Suspension of most (all?) of the Bill of Rights + Wholesale slaughter of civilian populations abroad (so much for "all men are created equal ... with unalienable rights") But perhaps the most nefarious is the idea that "we all pulled together and sacrificed to defeat the enemy." The government schoo…

We did not choose war willingly, the japanese govt made the choice for us when they attacked pearl harbor.

Don't think the US didn't do everything it could to antagonize the enemy. Japan was repeatedly slapped in the face until it had no choice but to respond to protect its honour.

I'm not saying what Japan did was in any way noble, but it was certainly far from unexpected. The US administration knew the war in Europe was a serious problem if left unchecked, that Britain and its allies would never prevail, but there was considerable resistance to the war.

The attack on Pearl Harbor instantly catalyzed support.

This doesn't even touch on the fact that many American companies were looking at Germany as an important customer, a country spending lavishly to build up its capability, at a time when American companies were struggling.

Politics are complicated. It's rare that any of those involved in a conflict are entirely innocent.

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