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John Glenn has died

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Re: John Glenn has died

#131
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the '90s it was ... sort of out there. Especially getting all the way down NASA Rd1---it was at least 20 minutes combined getting down 45 and out to JSC. A lot of the astronauts lived in El Lago, Seabrook, etc., which definitely were way out there.

If only it took 20 minutes now. I used to visit JSC several times a year in the 80's and 90's ... until they locked it down and opened Space Center Houston. It never seemed that far 'out there' coming from the north side outer loop (610) compared to The Woodlands. OT but it was a pleasure to be able to park and roam the campus and enter most buildings (including Mission Control) on a self guided tour. Space Center Ho…

As kids we used to entertain ourselves on the JSC campus---they had the best junk: old shuttle parts, broken satellite antennas, x-plane canopies; you name it! I liked being able to roam around and just check out old mercury modules, etc. I know that this stuff needs to be maintained; thus, the ostensible reason for Space Center; but, that curated faux experience is not the NASA which inspired me.

Re: John Glenn has died

#132
post #5

"As I hurtled through space, one thought kept crossing my mind - every part of this rocket was supplied by the lowest bidder." - John Glenn. RIP sir.

A different version of that comment is often attributed to Alan Shepard (first American in space). Any connection to Glenn seems to be apocryphal from shortly after 9/11 http://www.snopes.com/rumors/glenn.asp

Re: John Glenn has died

#133
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

John Glenn was an engineer. Lee Iacocca was an engineer. Elon Musk is not an engineer.

Yet, "In order to be an engineer, it is not enough to be an engineer." Jose Ortega y Gasset. No profession has a monopoly on competence.

He made a monstrously inaccurate statement about the area of a solar panel and the power output of an area equivalent with the surface area of a nuclear power plant. I thought he was well versed in how utilities and energy work, but this made me see him in a different light.

https://youtu.be/UKT2tKmVk6g?t=16m52s

I at one time thought Elon Musk was monstrously good engineer, but I found out he was a physicist recently.

Re: John Glenn has died

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> humanity has lost the Lee Iacocca of Space Perhaps you could explain the comparison to a somewhat famous car company executive ...

It's a dated reference, but I can shed some light on this. I'm from Detroit and my dad worked at Chrysler basically his entire adult life. Lee Iacocca was the rockstar of the automotive world before Elon Musk hit the scene. As an exec and former engineer at Ford, he spearheaded the development of the mustang among many other accomplishments. After leaving Ford, I guess he needed a challenge and took on the ordeal of…

This was a great explanation. I am curious. Was that high school Cranbrook?

Re: John Glenn has died

#135
I wish I had something profound, but all I have is the VHS I taped over Power Rangers to see the first senior citizen in space, along with the coverage taking about his historic orbits. I do what is amazing is with all our advances, all we seem to do is chunk metal into orbit. Still, he and his cohort have inspired many to do what I cannot, so perhaps I will someday see another space milestone.

Re: John Glenn has died

#136

RIP. I have to wonder, these first missions, did the astronauts have any assurance they would make it back to earth? What was it like to say goodbye to family, not knowing if you would return or not. Am I way off here? Was this mission uncertain or did NASA have reasonable assurances?

You've got to read The Right Stuff[1], it's fantastic. Tom Wolfe paints the ethos of the era perfectly, and if you have any interest in this period, early NASA, or the guys themselves it's a must-read. I'd also recommend Chuck Yeager's autobiography[2] as another fantastic read that gives you a feel for what life was like for elite test pilots. 1: https://smile.amazon.com/Right-Stuff-Tom-Wolfe/dp/0312427565... 2: htt…

While I love 'The Right Stuff,' Tom Wolfe took many liberties with the truth, distorted events, and did not properly interview his subjects. Tom Wolfe himself admits that Alan Shepard hated it.[1] (Shepard accused him of never interviewing the astronauts)

For me, one of Wolfe's most troubling "creative interpretations" is his portrayal of Gus Grissom. He heavily implied that Grissom "screwed up" by taking a prevalent media theory and running with it because Grissom was already dead and couldn't tell his side of the story.

"""

Even after his death, perhaps because he was an easy target and could not defend himself, the public opinion of Gus was still questionable. In the book and the movie, "The Right Stuff," Tom Wolfe portrays Gus as "the goat among the astronauts, a hard-drinking, hard-living type who courts the favors of barmaids with gewgaws he promises to carry into space. He is also held up to the world as a man who screwed up, who panicked, blew the explosive hatch off his capsule and allowed it to sink to the ocean floor after reentry."

Wolfe described the scene at Edwards Air Force Base after Gus's Liberty Bell 7 flight as such: "And at Edwards . . . the True Brothers [test pilots who were not selected for the astronaut program]. . . well, my God, as you can imagine, they were . . . laughing! Naturally they couldn't say anything. But now - surely! - it was so obvious! Grissom had just screwed the pooch!"

Gus Grissom vs. the Media: Victim or Hero?

http://datamanos2.com/apollo1/grissom-media.html

"""

None of this ever happened. NASA's own internal investigations cleared his name and he later led an extremely successful Gemini mission and the ill fated Apollo 1. [2] He was the first member of the Astronaut Corps to fly in space twice and would have arguably led Apollo 11 had it not been for the fire. [3]

Tom Wolfe wanted to write a dramatic story about a group of people explicitly chosen for being preternaturally calm. So he resorted to creative devices (there are "composite characters" within the book) and fiction to spice things up.

If you'd like to get an accurate view of space history, then I'd suggest these books by astronauts and flight controllers.

Jim Lovell's 'Apollo 13' https://www.amazon.com/Apollo-13-James-Lovell/dp/0618619585 (which takes a very interesting systemic approach to the failure and views it from the perspective of the engineering and other ground crew as well as the astronauts)

Gene Kranz's 'Failure Is Not an Option' https://www.amazon.com/Failure-Not-Option-Mission-Control/dp...

Michael Collins' 'Carrying the Fire' https://www.amazon.com/Carrying-Fire-Astronauts-Michael-Coll... (he wrote a part of this in orbit around the moon while Armstrong and Aldrin made their historic landing)

Eugene Cernan's 'The Last Man on the Moon' https://www.amazon.com/Last-Man-Moon-Astronaut-Americas/dp/0...

Shepard, Glenn, Cooper, Grissom, Schirra, Carpenter, and Slayton's 'We Seven' https://www.amazon.com/Seven-Astronauts-Themselves-Scott-Car... (written in 1962 by the astronauts themselves)

John Young's 'Forever Young' https://www.amazon.com/Forever-Young-Life-Adventure-Space/dp...

Together I find these books to be much better than any other compilation, because they were written by the people who were actually there. Some are technical. Some aren't. A few are even poetic. But together they represent a thorough look at the Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo programs.

[1] "In other words they were like Everyman—except for Alan Shepard. He hated the whole thing, down to the paper it was printed on."

http://www.chipublib.org/interview-with-tom-wolfe/

[2] http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/11/with-every-splashdown...

[3] According to Deke Slayton the "chief astronaut" who made flight selections, Grissom was on track to be a moonwalker. He was the key decision maker who pushed Armstrong forward as the first person on the moon.

http://www.umiacs.umd.edu/~oard/apollo/poss_moonwalkers.html

Re: John Glenn has died

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

History is full of people knowingly taking such risks. For example, my father was a B17 navigator. 80% of the group he went to England with became casualties. He was convinced he would not survive his tour due to the inevitable mathematics of the B-17 loss rate. But he went anyway.

I just read that Glenn flew 149 combat missions, including ones where he got his plane back home all shot up. He had no shortage of bravery and willingness to take huge risks.

John Glenn was known to his flying buddies as 'old iron ass' for his ability to always bring back a shot up plane safely. He took heavy hits to his aircraft a dozen times.

He kept a Cessna, flying it until his 90th birthday.

Re: John Glenn has died

#139
post #14

John Glenn was one of my boyhood heroes. I remember as a young boy listening to reports of him taking off and making those three orbits of the earth. My uncle gave me a crystal radio shaped like Glenn's Friendship 7 capsule that ignited a fierce passion into radio that led to a ham radio license and a lifelong interest in science. It was a time in America when the future seemed endless, anything was possible. A lot h…

>It was a time in America when the future seemed endless, anything was possible. Somewhere between "We choose to go to the moon" and "if you see something, say something" we traded all of our hope and optimism for fear and suspicion. I'm just hoping for hope again.

In one of his essays, David Brin attempts to define the difference between science fiction and fantasy as one of optimism vs pessimism. In fantasy, the characters reminisce about the good old days, when there was a golden age. In sci-fi, the characters believe that the golden age is in their future-- that things are going to get better.

I wish we still lived in a science fiction world.

Re: John Glenn has died

#140
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, the best thing about ham radio are the connections you make with people - in that ham radio enthusiasts are self selected. They seem to be an eclectic bunch of resourceful, witty, kind, and clever people.

I've always wanted to know what they talk about via radio.

In my experience, weather and baseball. And of course ham radio.
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