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U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

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Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#131

Post by 75j »

School-Cotton wrote: post #73
75j wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apparently back in the old days you could work a part time job Even if that was true, it's not the old days anymore. The college I went to is now at 50,000$+ a year with compulsory room and board. Try paying that off with a part-time job and still competing well with your rich peers. No matter what, it's an enormous advantage to not have to work while in college. I know I wouldn't have done as well if I was working…

Tuition at the college I went to was about $8000 a year. I graduated in 2013. What did the extra several of tens of thousands buy you?

It was one of the the few smaller colleges with a linguistics department, so there's that. I had small class sizes and good, well-known professors, but the main reason is because I was 18 and I was just expected to go to a college like that. I personally didn't want to go to college at all, but it wasn't an option, and my parents fortunately had the money to cover everything. I got a national merit scholarship which knocked about 20,000$ off the price tag (and I contributed ~3000$ a year), but still, way too pricey. Many of my friends took out huge loans to go there. If I had the choice I would've lived abroad for a few years and then went to a state college.

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#132

Post by westpfelia »

winter_blue wrote: post #105
toomanybeersies wrote: post #6

Every time I read articles about student loans in the USA, the options are always presented as either the current state, or free tuition. Why are interest free student loans never floated as an option? Here in New Zealand, our student loans are provided by the government and are interest free as long as we reside in New Zealand. It means that people who don't do tertiary education, or who do a trade, don't subsidise…

I think the problem is that there is no downward marker pressure on college costs (for some puzzling reason there). It seems like American students are willing to pay higher and higher tuitions. This is the root of the problem. If we had 0% interest loans, we might have students paying even more for college than now. Why can't these kids just think about the debt they're getting into?

Because its pounded into their heads that if they dont go to college then they have no chance at making it successfully in life. So taking on 5-10 years of debt for 40-50 years of success is seen as worth it.

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#133

Post by skwosh »

acchow wrote: post #122
skwosh wrote: post #117

There seems to be a strong sentiment in this thread that the only value provided by education is the contribution to career (e.g. that loans should only be provided for financially viable courses, that studying arts is as useful to one's career as studying finger painting, etc). This just seems so wrong. Optimising for vocational training means you're effectively tuning out the abstract arts and sciences and... oh, t…

You really don't need to pay tuition to gain a rich education in art and humanities and sciences if you want one. There are resources aplenty - buy a book! I'd even go so far as to say the majority of college grads learned almost nothing during college, and the few who did would, after a few years of maturity, pick up a book of their own free will and enrich themselves. I think the costs of university (huge amounts o…

You could say that about anything though, and I'm sure many in engineering do (about everything from design patterns to category theory...).

The value added by quality in-person tuition shouldn't be underrated though, not to mention access to equipment, studios, and like minds...

Working and communicating in person is a hugely effective catalyst for productivity, creative evolution, etc. Artistic and scientific development is often accelerated by human interaction, which is why art movements and scientific advancements tend to cluster around communities (vs individuals).

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#134

Post by paulmd »

petre wrote: post #112
rayiner wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids can't think rationally about debt because their parents and teachers have overinflated the importance of everyone going to college and have actively discouraged critical thinking on these issues.

So send them to college elsewhere? in Canada? Europe?

That's actually a thing now. A significant number of students are going to Germany, getting a subsidized education, and never coming back to the US.

Brain drain is not an overall plus for the US economy. We shouldn't want our best and brightest settling overseas - except insofar as we want to do right by our posterity, and the US education system is obviously not doing right by them.

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#135

Post by wojcech »

nightski wrote: post #130
skwosh wrote: post #117

There seems to be a strong sentiment in this thread that the only value provided by education is the contribution to career (e.g. that loans should only be provided for financially viable courses, that studying arts is as useful to one's career as studying finger painting, etc). This just seems so wrong. Optimising for vocational training means you're effectively tuning out the abstract arts and sciences and... oh, t…

I feel like the value of adversity is lost sometimes on HN. We should be especially familiar with it. Earning a high level of income makes life extraordinarily comfortable, to the point where it is easy to become complacent and stop trying to really contribute to society in a meaningful way. Some times a struggle is not a bad thing. Not to the point where one should be homeless or starving of course, but having every…

This sentiment is so bizarre from a European perspective. So the only thing that stops people from getting an education willy nilly is student debt? Or American engineers are all better in some respects than German engineers because of their debt?

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#136

Post by rahimnathwani »

refurb wrote: post #120
rahimnathwani wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a bubble. There is no stock of assets that are suddenly going to fall in market value. You can see education as an investment, but it's not a tradeable asset. If I buy an apartment, there's a market that (i) tells me the value of the apartment at any time, (ii) let's me (or the bank) liquidate the apartment and turn it into cash. University degrees aren't like that. Someone holding a degree doesn't suffer…

There is no stock of assets that are suddenly going to fall in market value. Sure there is, the loans themselves. Right now a bunch of lenders have $1.3T worth of loans. If those loans don't get paid off, they are $1.3T poorer.

What would cause those assets to suddenly fall in value?

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#137

Post by whyenot »

cnnsucks wrote: post #106
munin wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

equal parts administrator and the state, since as I understand it the tuition hikes track funding cuts at the government level for higher ed. that is the real killer. so, do the taxpayers see the money as reduced sales and property tax?

>> since as I understand it the tuition hikes track funding cuts at the government level for higher ed. that is the real killer. No, that isn't the real killer. That's the educrat line you've been trained to regurgitate. The truth is that higher-ed is getting about the same percent GDP it's been getting since the 70's [1]. The "real killer" is the annual 3.5% above inflation tuition increases [2] that are inflicted t…

> The truth is that higher-ed is getting about the same percent GDP it's been getting since the 70's

Isn't it true that many more students attend college than was the case in the 1970's? For example, between 2003 and 2013 enrollment increased 20%[1]. US population only increased about 10%.

> inflicted to fund an ever growing amount of staff and their gold plated benefits

Do you have any data to back this up? This has not been my experience in California's State University system. The benefits are ok, comparable to industry, but the pay is awful.

1. http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=98

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#138

Post by IslaDeEncanta »

nightski wrote: post #130
skwosh wrote: post #117

There seems to be a strong sentiment in this thread that the only value provided by education is the contribution to career (e.g. that loans should only be provided for financially viable courses, that studying arts is as useful to one's career as studying finger painting, etc). This just seems so wrong. Optimising for vocational training means you're effectively tuning out the abstract arts and sciences and... oh, t…

I feel like the value of adversity is lost sometimes on HN. We should be especially familiar with it. Earning a high level of income makes life extraordinarily comfortable, to the point where it is easy to become complacent and stop trying to really contribute to society in a meaningful way. Some times a struggle is not a bad thing. Not to the point where one should be homeless or starving of course, but having every…

Your comment is the typical lack of perspective I expect from HN. Going to college is extremely stressful. Going to college poor (actually poor) is nearly impossible.

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#139

Post by skwosh »

rhizome wrote: post #124
skwosh wrote: post #117

There seems to be a strong sentiment in this thread that the only value provided by education is the contribution to career (e.g. that loans should only be provided for financially viable courses, that studying arts is as useful to one's career as studying finger painting, etc). This just seems so wrong. Optimising for vocational training means you're effectively tuning out the abstract arts and sciences and... oh, t…

"true" art is antithetical to capitalism Absolutely not, especially now when the mechanisms of compensation have been democratized so well. Beyond that, Andy Warhol (et al) would be amused to learn that real art and capitalism were conceptual enemies. NB: I'm assuming you're using "antithetical" to mean that their successes are inversely proportional.

Not inversely proportional, just somewhat orthogonal, reflecting a (largely) different set of priorities.

Plus I'm not sure that the "mechanisms of compensation have been democratized so well", as you claim. (Which is to say it's all still largely driven by major label interests [1] [2].)

[1] http://pitchfork.com/features/article/8993-the-cloud/ [2] http://www.newyorker.com/culture/sasha-frere-jones/if-you-ca...

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#140

Post by ingenieros »

laretluval wrote: post #125
skwosh wrote: post #117

There seems to be a strong sentiment in this thread that the only value provided by education is the contribution to career (e.g. that loans should only be provided for financially viable courses, that studying arts is as useful to one's career as studying finger painting, etc). This just seems so wrong. Optimising for vocational training means you're effectively tuning out the abstract arts and sciences and... oh, t…

> These fields don't usually/directly translate into a financial success, but they broaden our perspective and deepen our experience. And in doing so provide the tools and language to more effectively analyse and engage with human culture. What concrete evidence leads you to think this is true?

A calligraphy class taught by Robert Palladino in Reed College would go on to have a profound effect on a guy whose name now escapes me. :)
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