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I Used to Be a Human Being

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Re: I Used to Be a Human Being

#131

Post by tspike »

morgante wrote: post #115

To me, this reads like an alcoholic ranting about how everyone should stop drinking. Yes, technology can be addicting. That doesn't mean we're "helpless" or even that it's bad . I'm really sick of these hyperbolic luddites. Personally, it's not at all a problem. I'm not a technophobe—I have an iPhone, use Facebook, etc.—but it's done nothing but positively improve my life. I can keep in touch with friends around the…

If we're going with the alcoholic analogy, alcoholism very clearly has a genetic component, so some people are predisposed to it. I don't think it's far fetched to hypothesize that technology addiction might be genetic as well, with the key difference being that using technology is basically compulsory while using alcohol is not.

Sounds like you're just saying "deal with it" because you don't personally struggle with it.

Re: I Used to Be a Human Being

#132

Post by morgante »

kelvin0 wrote: post #126
morgante wrote: post #115

To me, this reads like an alcoholic ranting about how everyone should stop drinking. Yes, technology can be addicting. That doesn't mean we're "helpless" or even that it's bad . I'm really sick of these hyperbolic luddites. Personally, it's not at all a problem. I'm not a technophobe—I have an iPhone, use Facebook, etc.—but it's done nothing but positively improve my life. I can keep in touch with friends around the…

I see what you mean, and you are quite possibly right. Please don't take it as an insult, but how do you know this technology is not causing similar issues in your life? We've all seen some people in our lives deny some facet of themselves only to realize they had a problem (after much introspection). I would really like to have your opinion on this.

> Please don't take it as an insult, but how do you know this technology is not causing similar issues in your life?

That's something I think a lot about. For me, the evidence that technology is not having that effect on my life:

1. At least once a year, I go on a hike of at least 1 week (without a phone). I'm consistently able to do this without feeling any sort of withdrawal.

2. I try to read a book on my Kindle for an hour every day. [0]

3. Whenever I fly, I never purchase wifi. If I'm able to consistently go 9-12 hours without any internet access, just reading or napping, it hardly seems like I'm addicted.

4. When I'm around other people, focus on them. If I go out to dinner with someone, I sit and talk to them instead of playing on my phone. It honestly boggles my mind that people think it's acceptable to stare at your phone while talking to someone.

[0] The fixation on "printed" books really is ludicrous. Reading on the Kindle is no more or less distracting than reading a printed book. It's essentially an offline experience.

Re: I Used to Be a Human Being

#133

Post by beachstartup »

jstimpfle wrote: post #86
resetting wrote: post #7

I'd be interested to hear everyone's strategies to combat this, as I assume many of us that work in the industry encounter similar problems of distraction and inundation. First, I don't use any devices directly after waking up. I meditate for about 20 minutes upon waking and then try to read fiction for 40 minutes. So, all in, somewhere around an hour of no device distractions before starting my day. Slack is one of…

I shut down my facebook account seven years ago. I'd noticed fairly early on that what I did there was basically marketing myself and some stalking. I also noticed I was poor in marketing and felt ashamed of myself. In consequence my interest in stalking / following others' marketing faded, and shutting down my account was the only logical action to take. I've never regretted it. I have a smartphone, but don't use it…

this is exactly the reason i got rid of fb also. i found myself stalking people online, trying to initiate probably-unwanted communications, something bizarre and creepy that i certainly do not do in real life. it just becomes easy and abstract on social media.

Re: I Used to Be a Human Being

#134

Post by morgante »

tspike wrote: post #131
morgante wrote: post #115

To me, this reads like an alcoholic ranting about how everyone should stop drinking. Yes, technology can be addicting. That doesn't mean we're "helpless" or even that it's bad . I'm really sick of these hyperbolic luddites. Personally, it's not at all a problem. I'm not a technophobe—I have an iPhone, use Facebook, etc.—but it's done nothing but positively improve my life. I can keep in touch with friends around the…

If we're going with the alcoholic analogy, alcoholism very clearly has a genetic component, so some people are predisposed to it. I don't think it's far fetched to hypothesize that technology addiction might be genetic as well, with the key difference being that using technology is basically compulsory while using alcohol is not. Sounds like you're just saying "deal with it" because you don't personally struggle with…

> Sounds like you're just saying "deal with it" because you don't personally struggle with it.

Sorry if it came off that way. Like I said, I don't doubt that some people might be addicted to it.

I absolutely think they should pursue the remedies they need for themselves, whether that's quitting social media or pursuing a meditation practice. I have friends who quit Facebook and I don't hold it against them (though I do recognize it makes keeping in touch a lot harder).

My problem is that he can't seem to recognize that this addiction might not be universal, just like alcoholics shouldn't force prohibition on the rest of us. (In fact, he literally calls for "restaurants where smartphones must be surrendered upon entering.")

Re: I Used to Be a Human Being

#135

Post by cortesoft »

jonstokes wrote: post #79

The number one thing I've found to be effective in combatting this is sleep. I have to get 8 hours of uninterrupted, unmedicated sleep. 9 hours is even better. And I have to do it for a few nights in a row. If I do anything at all that interferes with the quality of my sleep, I'm screwed, and The Stream will suck me in. Conversely, things that increase the quality of my sleep -- exercise, diet, not using gadgets afte…

If only my infant daughter would agree to this plan....

Re: I Used to Be a Human Being

#136

Post by daveloyall »

morgante wrote: post #134
tspike wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're going with the alcoholic analogy, alcoholism very clearly has a genetic component, so some people are predisposed to it. I don't think it's far fetched to hypothesize that technology addiction might be genetic as well, with the key difference being that using technology is basically compulsory while using alcohol is not. Sounds like you're just saying "deal with it" because you don't personally struggle with…

> Sounds like you're just saying "deal with it" because you don't personally struggle with it. Sorry if it came off that way. Like I said, I don't doubt that some people might be addicted to it. I absolutely think they should pursue the remedies they need for themselves, whether that's quitting social media or pursuing a meditation practice. I have friends who quit Facebook and I don't hold it against them (though I…

Humans are definitely not universally susceptible to stream addiction.

However, the rate of adoption described in the article[0] is worrisome.

0: Actually, you might just look out a window to get the same data.

Re: I Used to Be a Human Being

#137

Post by dredmorbius »

marmot777 wrote: post #108
mcphage wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not, because technology is a product of the people and processes that created it. And since people and processes aren't neutral (who is, after all), the technology they create won't be, either.

I may come off as disagreeing but I question to understand. Do you have some tangible examples?

From Michael and Joyce Heusemann, Techno-Fix (mentioned in a prior comment):

"In addition to cost-effectiveness, efficiency and marketability, a wide range of other values are commonly embedded in many modern technologies. These are, for example, power, control, exploitation and violence, with respect to both people and nature (Chapter 3), profit-maximization, speed, mass-production, uniformity, repetitiveness, quantification, precision, standardization, dependency, materialism, consumerism and individualism.854 In general, the more specifically a technology has been designed for a particular use, the more completely it will embody the values of the designers, and the less it will be of use for purposes reflecting different values. Thus, the more specific the design, the less human choice and control there will be regarding the final use of the respective technology."

The passage continues to quote Robert Proctor in Value-Free Science? Purity and Power in Modern Knowledge.

To give another example, virtually the entire infrastrure of the modern Web and information technology system is oriented around the interests of advertisers, and against those of content creators. I'm typing this on a tablet which will faithfully suppor all requests by advertisers to cram their content, and surveillance requests, down my throat, but which routinely discards my own content (I've watched this comment disappear multiple times as I toggle to the book viewer application from which I'm pulling quotes). The tools for organising content of specific interest to me is exceptionally poor.

Even putatively user-oriented systems such as GNU/Linux have been increasingly falling victim to this, a distressing trend that's been accellerating over my 20+ year use of it.

Re: I Used to Be a Human Being

#138

Post by stnmtn »

marmot777 wrote: post #83
pmoriarty wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have complained about the loss of authenticity for much longer than the internet (much less social media) has been around. It happens around any time of great change. We happen to be living through a period of some of the fastest changes in human history, so it's not surprising a lot of people are confused and feel like they've lost something.

What have we lost? I don't doubt we have lost something, I just don't know what it is.

What have we lost? In my opinion, a big part of it is the illusion that people are more than just people

With the internet, we've been able to confirm that everyone is, more or less, just like us. You can see this especially in up and coming new media stars. They use self deprecation as a crutch and irony is really funny. The internet released a hall of mirrors on society and now the illusion of authenticity is broken

Why is that that 'Hipsters' reach out for things that they hope are real? Facial hair is real. Single-Speed Bikes are real. I'm talking about a stereotype here, obviously, but I think that a hipster is something who reaches for external authenticity

I hope I don't sound like a cynical person, because I really don't think I am. I don't think this is a terrible thing, but it certainly makes navigating people much harder because the illusion of becoming one of 'The Greats' with a Capital G is something that doesn't seem very possible anymore

Re: I Used to Be a Human Being

#139

Post by dredmorbius »

zeveb wrote: post #35
pawadu wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surprisingly, I think you can fully disable G+ on Android. But somehow, G+ has never been in the way for me. It almost feels like a grown up version of Facebook.

> It almost feels like a grown up version of Facebook. Yup, I really like it, although recently (as it's emptied out) the public communities have gotten significantly worse. 'Facebook for adults' sounds like a wonderful thing. My hope now is that maybe we can build it as a community, rather than as a product.

How do you mean G+ has emptied out? Honestly curious as I've been keeping tabs on the whole dynamic of the site -- from initial high hopes to present near-complete disillusionment.

Re: I Used to Be a Human Being

#140

Post by stnmtn »

marmot777 wrote: post #82
hitekker wrote: post #9

"I used to be a human being": I like this phrase. It captures, poetically, the existential despair of losing the conditions of humanity. Regardless of if the author's particular conditions necessitates the implicit drama, each of one us, I'm sure, have felt like we lost what made us "real" or "authentic" at some point or another.

Is the problem of authenticity, another word for being yourself (right?) a problem specific to online? I wonder if it's a problem that came with modern civilization. People can feel this way IRL. I guess the Internet does add an extra measure of distance in a sense but in another sense it reduces those distances. We all routinely interact with people all over the globe. I'm not arguing against what you're saying, jus…

I was reading a book a couple weeks ago and there was a throwaway line that really stuck out to me. I think it was a David Foster Wallace book

It was something like all the great themes are taken. We've taken all the great themes and adventures and created theme parks where you can go to experience a fantasy yet know this isn't real. You know it's not authentic.

I'm butchering the meaning of it, wish I could figure out where I read it

Edit: I found it! apparently, it's from a 1990 movie I've never seen nor heard of, which doesn't sound right. I'm like 80% sure I read it in Brief Interviews with Hideous Men

"You see, there's nothing to do anymore. Everything decent's been done. All the great themes have been used up. Turned into theme parks. So I don't really find it exactly cheerful to be living in the middle of a totally, like, exhausted decade where there's nothing to look forward to and no one to look up to."

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