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We’re in the Middle of a Data Engineering Talent Shortage

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131–140 of 166 posts

Re: We’re in the Middle of a Data Engineering Talent Shortage

#132
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you should start a Data Science & Engineering consultancy. The same people who would offer $150K to an employee often have bosses who would love to spend $500K for a person-year of (contract) work if it comes with a high probability of success.

I have thought about that. Many times. I have a couple of barriers, most of which are temporary: 1. I have student debt from my law degree, and I have a lower risk tolerance until that's paid off. 2. My daughter is 4, it's nice to be around for the early years, and the corporate gig is quite comfortable in terms of hours. 3. I'm in Maine. Most clients would require me to travel, which impacts #2. I do have a former c…

+1 for making family important!

Re: We’re in the Middle of a Data Engineering Talent Shortage

#133
post #29

From the article: "Data engineers are the janitors who keep your data clean and flowing." Hm, I wonder why he's having problems hiring janitors.

Bizarrely, I remember a recent HN discussion where a poster was arguing that any software developer who is not working in machine learning is like a plumber. I guess this means that the entire profession consists of janitors and plumbers.

Considering that plumbers and janitors have likely, in the entire history of human civilization, done more for health and longevity than doctors and scientists...I'm kind of ok with this analogy.

Re: We’re in the Middle of a Data Engineering Talent Shortage

#134
Weirdly the problem is most hires have it backwards.

Before going out to the market and discovering what talent exists and consequently what salary it will take to get them to join (ie negotiate) most organisations decide on a salary range, usually reflecting the current internal structure not the current external market.

The longer an organisation has existed the more out of whack with the market its internal set up is.

As such companies decide on their price point first, then go looking. Which is of course backwards.

Re: We’re in the Middle of a Data Engineering Talent Shortage

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do it for a living. It seems underappreciated in the industry.

I agree. I enjoyed doing it the first couple times, but people would often complain why I wasn't done sooner and didn't appreciate the level of complexity that went in to doing it. Once the appreciation was gone, I believe that's when it turned into a mind-numbing task for me. I don't mean to be little the job, I think I have just become sour to it because of the lack of appreciation.

A big part of my role is getting out there in front of business partners to keep the things that we do well front of mind. If you manage this work in the traditional sense, you'll be invisible when things go well and shat-upon as soon as anything goes wrong. At my current organization, I've really had to work at this. Here's a story:

Once upon a time I managed (and, frankly, also wrote a lot of the code for) a project integrating half a dozen sources each managing a block of our business (billing, coverage, claims). The data was awful coming in and we managed to get a bunch of business processes changed in addition to some pretty heavy cleansing steps that we wrote. In any case, this big fragmented mess of monthly and weekly stacked data became my integrated, clean warehouse. For the first time ever at this organization, I had coverage and claims records tying up at a rate of 100% without any manual intervention. We did this so that we could implement a modern finance ops process on top (being intentionally vague) that would allow us to manage this block more efficiently, save time, and even let us better invest - it was a 2 year project including my data work. A handful of actuaries and analysts got promoted out of this as it was a BFD to the company. Yet, at the end of the year, when I got my review I got our equivalent of the average rating, 3 of 5, etc, and like a 3% raise, and a shitty budget for my people too. From then on, I spent almost as much time out there promoting our team's work as we did doing the work. We did considerably better the next year, and that's been the way I've operated ever since. I market the work.

This kind of work requires a manager who will actively market it within the organization.

Re: We’re in the Middle of a Data Engineering Talent Shortage

#136
post #93

So I know SQL, Python, Django, Java (though its been a while), Javascrit, Linux, some cloud computing and a bit of devops. Am I a data engineer? Software engineer, with a lot of database background? What makes a data engineer different from a software engineer?

- The challenge for an organization is to recognize that there is a significant difference between the 'data engineer' working on a vertical project and the 'data engineer' responsible for integrating data across the enterprise.

- The project 'data engineer', in today's world, most likely will be a software developer responsible for ETL, etc. The data design will be more or less up to the software developer.

- An enterprise 'data engineer' is more concerned with data that affects the enterprise. This typically involves some sort of data integration. For example, how to integrate relevant data from N projects (e.g. A,B,C .. Z) where each project has its own idea of how to represent similar concepts (e.g. person, user, customer), with different provenance, truth assertions, access rules, data retention periods, granularity of metadata (e.g. at the attribute level vs entity level), etc. The enterprise is interested in questions like 'What did we know and when did we know it?", etc. The enterprise 'data engineer' will probably levy requirements on the project 'data engineer' to meet the enterprise's needs.

Re: We’re in the Middle of a Data Engineering Talent Shortage

#137
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although your statement is technically true, it is basically meaningless. Yes, you can always always always find somebody to do a job is your a willing to pay 10 million dollars. That means that "shortages" are impossible. It means that you can never have a shortage in any situation, because you can always pay 10 million dollars for a single visit to the doctor. But this line of logic isn't very useful when talking a…

Haven't you just done a 180? I mean, I'm pretty sure the world would be in a much much better place if the government could snap its fingers and instantly produce large amounts of almost anything. Therefore there is a shortage of almost everything.

Given the millions of unemployed Americans, it seems this is not true for at least some occupations.

Wal-Mart greeters can be wonderful people and I'm not saying they aren't valuable as humans. But in labor market terms, there is clearly not a shortage of them.

Re: We’re in the Middle of a Data Engineering Talent Shortage

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I guess you are a data engineer? What makes it fun for you? How do work with your customers to give them what they need in a timely matter? I would be interested to know what stack you use to go from dirty data to customer consumption.

Closer to an aspiring data engineer, though I've done my fair share of ETL, cleaning, database building / rebuilding, admin. Prior jobs have been database engineer, probably closer to DBA. I just enjoy working with raw data and raw code more than I enjoy writing something that launches a graphic. I enjoy writing a script that finds a bad piece of data, or a script that fixes up everything, or writing something that w…

I'm not comparing frontend to backend. I also think data is fun and I don't mean to be little the job, but in a real world scenario its detail intensive, under appreciated, tons of edge cases and extremely complex if you plan to make it scalable and fast. So if you are an aspiring data engineer be aware of these pitfalls, because the first couple times you do it you will think its fun to try something new and create some fun useful analytics, but customers will often complain at how long it takes and want more. It starts to wear away at ones drive and passion for data. Its not the data aspect its the job/deadline aspect.

Re: We’re in the Middle of a Data Engineering Talent Shortage

#139

Every time something comes up on HN about a talent shortage in a field related to software engineering, it hurts. I have been unsuccessfully looking for a full time position since my last start up (I was not a founder) folded six months ago. I have been on over 25 in person interviews and gone through untold degrading whiteboard interviews, code tests, trick questions, and take home projects; all have ended in reject…

Hey, I'm going through something similar. I had to quit an amazing job because my wife and I pursued a dream and moved to Europe (no remote).

I had always had an easy time getting a job before but this time it was different. Granted I knew it'd be tougher since for remote jobs, the world is the competition. But it was a summer of endless shitty timed hackerrank-style tests (virtual whiteboard hazing). I would tell my co-workers about them and they'd laugh in bewilderment at the questions that were asked in what should be a technical screener, and these are extremely smart and productive software guys that have started companies, written books, give conference talks. One funny question I got for a frontend React job: write a function that takes a sequence of bits that represent a negative-binary number (not a base-2 number that is negative, but a base-(-2) number) and return its negated value in base-2. For a frontend job. It was one of 4 questions to be answered in 90 minutes. gtfo.

A few companies would reply, most strung me along while -- I realize now -- they were keeping me as a backup(-backup) incase their "A-player" turned them down. Countless interviews, hours on takehome projects, it was tough. I learned to cut bait if the company was slow to move forward, had weeklong periods of no communication, etc.

I (just very recently) found it's easier to land small contract gigs because the barrier to entry seems to be lower, demonstrate value, and keep getting work from those guys after the initial project was done. It is different but so far I actually like the freedom that comes with contracting. I haven't been at it long enough to experience the downsides.

There's definitely not a shortage of talent. It's that every company thinks they need "A-players", when the vast, vast majority are doing a damn basic CRUD app.

Just wanted to say I hear you brother and share my story in some solidarity. You will find something, just keep plugging away. Each "failed" attempt makes you better no matter how many attempts it takes. Cliche of course but it is true. I am very lucky in that I don't face the mental demons you do, even then this job search hit me pretty hard. Please be proactive and take care of yourself, body and mind (body goes a long way toward mind also).

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