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Taking the final wrapper off of Android 7.0 Nougat

android-developers.blogspot.com

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Re: Taking the final wrapper off of Android 7.0 Nougat

#131

Post by pasbesoin »

ConroyBumpus wrote: post #112
pasbesoin wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My 2013 Nexus 7 is perfectly fine... except for now being left behind, software-wise. I bought once / as soon as I learned that its successor had not been worth waiting for. So, I got significantly less than 3 years out of it. Would have bought the successor, except... Guess I'll be rooting it. And buying Apple, next time.

Things are tough all over. Signed, person that bought a first generation iPad.

Yeah. First world problem, or whatever. But, like my 2013 Moto X, it's irritating to get less than 2 years out of a multiple hundred dollar product that otherwise is fine.

And I would have bought the successor to the Nexus 7, except there was none, really -- nothing comparable and problem free (in addition to the price bump and larger size, the 9 had issues, initially, IIRC).

And... after the Moto X, and observing how quickly my parents' Samsung tablet on Verizon was abandoned, I wasn't willing to get a tablet other than a Nexus, i.e. one receiving support and updates directly from Google.

My point, finally, is that even going Nexus is no longer a way to get reasonable support for a product, it seems. I've gotten pretty tired of Google and company's game of musical chairs, with respect to hardware.

----

P.S. I post these comments, occasionally, here on HN also because I know Googlers still swing by and read them.

The only means of feedback I've ever found to Google.

Enough people push enough negativity through Google's version of the reality distortion field, and at least an initiative gets launched. Thing is, Google, you need to stick with it -- one of them -- sooner or later.

Re: Taking the final wrapper off of Android 7.0 Nougat

#132

Post by blisterpeanuts »

andrewblossom wrote: post #49
primo44 wrote: post #35

No Android 7 on my Nexus 5 might just be what pushes me to iOS. I've gone from being an Android evangelist to being an Android apologist ("Yeah, battery life sucks. Google has failed to fix it after X years") to now being, frankly, pissed off that my expensive phone is going to be left behind.

The Nexus 5 (16gb - $349, 32gb - $399) was released nearly three years ago for a fraction of the price of the comparable iPhone at the time (iPhone 5s: 16gb - $649, 32gb - $749). I think you got a hell of a deal. Upgrade to the 5x for another $350 be happy with another few years of support. Or wait for the new Nexus phones to come out this fall...

The Nexus 5X has no wireless inductive charging. My nice little Yootech charger sitting on my desk is useless with my wife's 5X. Those cool "charging tables" at Starbucks and other such places are suddenly useless, as well.

Also, 5X uses the USB-C connector, so you have to update all your cables and adapters on your desk and in your car. A real pain. When you're out in the world and need a charge-up, you'd better be carrying a USB-C cable, because no one else will have one.

I consider the 5X a side-grade and not of any particular value if you already have a 5. The 6P is at least a larger handset with a larger battery so it's got that going for it.

Re: Taking the final wrapper off of Android 7.0 Nougat

#133

Post by faviouz »

ymse wrote: post #6

Just a shout-out to the fine folks over at CopperheadOS[0]who have been doing a lot of behind-the-scenes hardening in Android over the last year[1]. If you have a Nexus device and don't care much for the Play Store applications (F-Droid is included) give it a go for a true AOSP experience. The only apps I'm really missing are Tasker and Signal, but I have a second phone for those. 0: https://copperhead.co/android/ 1:…

Looks awesome, but no support for the Nexus 5 :(

Re: Taking the final wrapper off of Android 7.0 Nougat

#134

Post by viraptor »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #108
magila wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really surprising given the device's age, but still disappointing given the presumably rather large number of Nexus 5 still in use. The bigger story may be the inability to come up with a compelling reason for N5 users to upgrade, other than getting the latest OS revision. The N5's compactness in particular makes the 5X (and the impending successor, codenamed "Sailfish") a tough sell.

> Not really surprising given the device's age, but still disappointing given the presumably rather large number of Nexus 5 still in use. My Nexus 5 was in use up until a couple of weeks ago. Then it entered a state where, when plugged in, it rebooted in an eternal loop and, when not plugged in, it shut off. Judging by the internet, this is a common problem for them. I followed the advice I found in multiple places o…

If you have another device to wait a month with, at least you can upgrade to the 2016 line instead of 5x/6p. Gives you another 3 years, not 2.

Re: Taking the final wrapper off of Android 7.0 Nougat

#135

Post by kuschku »

dragonwriter wrote: post #110
kuschku wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was true with Marshmallow. With Nougat, no background tasks will be run at all while the screen is off – except for Google services, or if they keep the CPU on 100% of the time with a wake lock. JobScheduler also doesn’t allow continuous tasks, but only short tasks – so you can’t actually keep a low-cost socket open.

> With Nougat, no background tasks will be run at all while the screen is off – except for Google services. Untrue. First, mobile Doze doesn't kick in immediately when the screen is off. Second, mobile Doze apparently doesn't stop all background tasks except "Google services" from running, since "wake locks" from apps for background tasks are still supported.

> Second, mobile Doze apparently doesn't stop all background tasks except "Google services" from running, since "wake locks" from apps for background tasks are still supported.

Except a Wake Lock has a significant battery impact, causing the CPU to stay on at all times.

There’s no way to keep your app running while also saving battery – which is the general ideal you want.

So, tell me, how do I keep a socket open without wasting battery?

    ________________________
A guarantee that, if the device has connection, the notification is transmitted within of 15 seconds, and that the device (in the case of the moto G 2014) gets still the 2 days battery runtime it’d get without the app.

That’s what I set as minimum goals for my app, and what I was able to get with older Android versions.

Re: Taking the final wrapper off of Android 7.0 Nougat

#136

Post by GCA10 »

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #132
andrewblossom wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Nexus 5 (16gb - $349, 32gb - $399) was released nearly three years ago for a fraction of the price of the comparable iPhone at the time (iPhone 5s: 16gb - $649, 32gb - $749). I think you got a hell of a deal. Upgrade to the 5x for another $350 be happy with another few years of support. Or wait for the new Nexus phones to come out this fall...

The Nexus 5X has no wireless inductive charging. My nice little Yootech charger sitting on my desk is useless with my wife's 5X. Those cool "charging tables" at Starbucks and other such places are suddenly useless, as well. Also, 5X uses the USB-C connector, so you have to update all your cables and adapters on your desk and in your car. A real pain. When you're out in the world and need a charge-up, you'd better be…

The good folks at Anker make thumb-size adapters that graft onto a USB-mini connector and turn it into a USB-C. These are easy to carry around and cost all of $5.99 on Amazon. Takes most of the hassle out of traveling in a mini-world.

You do have to remember to collect them when you're done, but the penalty for forgetting every now and then is not ruinous.

Re: Taking the final wrapper off of Android 7.0 Nougat

#137

Post by blisterpeanuts »

ThatPlayer wrote: post #85
magila wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really surprising given the device's age, but still disappointing given the presumably rather large number of Nexus 5 still in use. The bigger story may be the inability to come up with a compelling reason for N5 users to upgrade, other than getting the latest OS revision. The N5's compactness in particular makes the 5X (and the impending successor, codenamed "Sailfish") a tough sell.

The biggest feature I'm looking for that the newer Nexuses don't have over my N5/N7 is Qi wireless charging. My Nexus 7's USB port has been broken for over a year now, and I've been using a wireless charger all this time. It just seems like a good idea to reduce the wear and tear on the USB ports if I want to continue using the phone for years.

Plus there are charging tables in some Starbucks; it's so handy to just lay your device on the table and top it off. Why did they take that feature away? :(

There's a way to add wireless charging to your 5X if you're handy with a soldering iron, though.

https://youtu.be/WimH8g-H2lE

Re: Taking the final wrapper off of Android 7.0 Nougat

#138

Post by dragonwriter »

kuschku wrote: post #135
dragonwriter wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With Nougat, no background tasks will be run at all while the screen is off – except for Google services. Untrue. First, mobile Doze doesn't kick in immediately when the screen is off. Second, mobile Doze apparently doesn't stop all background tasks except "Google services" from running, since "wake locks" from apps for background tasks are still supported.

> Second, mobile Doze apparently doesn't stop all background tasks except "Google services" from running, since "wake locks" from apps for background tasks are still supported. Except a Wake Lock has a significant battery impact, causing the CPU to stay on at all times. There’s no way to keep your app running while also saving battery – which is the general ideal you want. So, tell me, how do I keep a socket open wit…

There's a pretty big difference between "no background tasks will be run except Google services" and "the options for background tasks are more restricted than in previous Android releases".

The second is indisputably true of Nougat, no one is arguing against it; the first is what you said upthread, what I was arguing against, and what is and remains false.

Re: Taking the final wrapper off of Android 7.0 Nougat

#139

Post by kuschku »

gcr wrote: post #55
kuschku wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And with this, they just killed all actual apps for Android. Anything you can do with an app you can do as well with a website. Any actual app, not just a website in form of an app, which did computational task, data recording, or kept services available, is impossible to create now. Run tracking app that doesn’t require you uploading your GPS data to Google Fit? Impossible. Messaging app that doesn’t route all your…

This is basically what iOS has done from the start. If you don't see the app in front of you, iOS will very quickly kill it if it has any background tasks. It's a leaky abstraction, but honestly I like the implicit promise/guarantee between the scheduler and the user. I only get annoyed when I want some batch task like uploading photos, but even then it's not too hard to leave the phone powered on and unlocked on my…

Except when you try to ensure someone gets notifications while the phone is in an intranet.

Or when you try to transmit notifications without going through Google/Apple servers, because those require you to control the messaging server (due to API auth limitations), which does not work with distributed systems.

A messaging app that only works when the screen is on is useless.

Re: Taking the final wrapper off of Android 7.0 Nougat

#140

Post by saint_fiasco »

plttn wrote: post #51
primo44 wrote: post #35

No Android 7 on my Nexus 5 might just be what pushes me to iOS. I've gone from being an Android evangelist to being an Android apologist ("Yeah, battery life sucks. Google has failed to fix it after X years") to now being, frankly, pissed off that my expensive phone is going to be left behind.

The alternative is the iOS update process, which has the result of non-techies complaining that their iPhone 4 is now slow after the update, and the techies they know pleading with them not to update even though the number gets bigger.

Do old versions of iOS receive security updates?
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