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Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

greatergood.berkeley.edu

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Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#131

Post by kross »

Mz wrote: post #117

The author is a woman. I posit that this is a gendered issue. Women who are people pleasers tend to get treated like doormats. Men who are pleasant seem far more able to also stand up for themselves and it seems to be a completely different dynamic socially.

I disagree, I think it is a human tendency because it is often the path of least resistance (short term, but long term can accumulate and be not worth the alternative).

So while culturally it might have higher numbers in women, the numbers in men are high enough to sell books like "No More Mr. Nice Guy.". Good book by the way.

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#132

Post by avindroth »

khedoros wrote: post #127
avindroth wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is being completely honest. Which is what the article espoused. The article also said do not hide your emotions. John is mad about the fact that his friend is wasting his life. I displayed that. If you are defining honest as some midpoint between a white lie and an asshole, then what is being honest? Not being completely honest, but just somewhat honest? Then your "honest" is a healthy mix of white lie and complet…

> If you are defining honest as some midpoint between a white lie and an asshole, then what is being honest? Honesty is an endpoint, with the other side being dishonesty (including lies). On a separate axis, you would have maybe "gentleness of communication". On a third axis, orthogonal to the first two, you might have "intent", ranging from benevolent to malevolent. So, complete honesty would be a plane. Some parts…

That's a great way to visualize it. I think there is much truth to what you said.

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#133

Post by avindroth »

tdkl wrote: post #130
avindroth wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same, had a feeling you read that book haha. The Way of the Superior Man by David Deida is a great follow-up. The guru stuff is sometimes overwhelming, but there are good ideas in that book. There is also a fantastic summary/teaser of the book on FightMediocrity (YouTube channel).

Hehe, read that one too, even before No more Mr. Nice guy. It's one of those that's hard to grasp, more of a lifetime read, when you gather more and more experiences, so that the suggestions make more sense. Those two books, "Models" by Mark Manson and "Slight edge" by Jeff Olson probably changed my life the most.

Completely agreed on Deida. I want to do a re-read some time soon.

Getting "Models" and "Slight edge" samples on Kindle now. Thanks for the recommendations!

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#134

Post by Mz »

kross wrote: post #131
Mz wrote: post #117

The author is a woman. I posit that this is a gendered issue. Women who are people pleasers tend to get treated like doormats. Men who are pleasant seem far more able to also stand up for themselves and it seems to be a completely different dynamic socially.

I disagree, I think it is a human tendency because it is often the path of least resistance (short term, but long term can accumulate and be not worth the alternative). So while culturally it might have higher numbers in women, the numbers in men are high enough to sell books like "No More Mr. Nice Guy.". Good book by the way.

So you agree it impacts women more but deny that it is a gendered issue. Gotcha.

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#135

Post by KajMagnus »

avindroth wrote: post #34
benatkin wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author defines people pleasing: > People pleasing, in my extensive personal experience, is a process of guessing what other people want, or what will make them think favorably of us, and then acting accordingly. People pleasing isn't caring about other people. It's being selfish and manipulative in interactions with other people (often without realizing it). Quite the opposite.

Okay. Let's take an example from the article. Be transparent, honest, and authentic. Do not ever waiver from this; white lies and false smiles quickly snowball into a life lived out of alignment. Let's say John is this guy who is "transparent, honest, and authentic, and never waivering." And say Jack, John's friend, is addicted to playing Overwatch. John comes by and says, "Jack, you shouldn't play Overwatch. You are…

I think you interpreted the article in a way that was not intended.

I don't think the author want people to be totally honest always, like, "Hi dear colleague. I think your dog is stupid. And, by the way, you are, too."

Instead, I imagine that fairly many people tend to, when their friends say "Do you want to hang out with us doing this?", they answer "yes" just to please their friends. Although in fact they might have wanted to suggest something else instead. And in these cases, the advice in the article can sometimes? often? be useful. I.e. to be more transparent and honest with your friends about what makes you happy.

If you interpret a piece of advice with the mindset that "perhaps this is good advice in some situations, when might that be?", then it can be helpful and useful to you (or to other people — to me, when I was younger, for example).

But if you interpret it like "always do this", then a piece of advice that is actually good in some situations, has been lost.

(I suppose the article can be rewritten / reworded, to make it easier to interpret it in a "good and useful" way.)

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#136

Post by bnjms »

Mz wrote: post #134
kross wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, I think it is a human tendency because it is often the path of least resistance (short term, but long term can accumulate and be not worth the alternative). So while culturally it might have higher numbers in women, the numbers in men are high enough to sell books like "No More Mr. Nice Guy.". Good book by the way.

So you agree it impacts women more but deny that it is a gendered issue. Gotcha.

It isn't a contradiction. They likely generalized 'gendered issue' to nearly one sided, one gender only. Rather than allowing for 'mostly'. I think I agree. The nice guy stereotype really does cover the doormat faked pleasantness of some people. Myself included on bad days.

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#137

Post by miesman »

"white lies and false smiles quickly snowball into a life lived out of alignment"

True story - My dental hygienist is annoying. She complains about her life while she was cleaning my teeth. She only works Wed and so when I rescheduled this time I said I was booked on Wed so I need someone else.

So I told a white lie to protect her feelings. Like it or not we are social creatures. Some people don't have the iron ego of the original author and can be hurt by "honest" remarks. Yes I get that it offends certain peoples sensibilities but it costs nothing to be nice to people.

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#138

Post by jdale27 »

hosh wrote: post #97
antisthenes wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's one of those "be yourself" types of advice. It works if "yourself" has certain characteristics and doesn't work if the "yourself" doesn't or has other attributes, based on the context. > Simple example: I maintain friendships with people I don't genuinely like primarily because they have wide social circles. Through those people, I've met individuals who I do genuinely like. That's genuinely good advice. You don…

A lot of people have some confusion around "be yourself" advice. There are a lot of things that can be unpacked about it, and people at differing levels of maturity or understanding will see different things. This is one of the better discussions about this: https://antiblog.quora.com/The-One-Piece-Puzzle-Chapter-2 Some excerpts: "When people talk about true self in Western culture, the discussion normally tends towa…

> This is one of the better discussions about this: https://antiblog.quora.com/The-One-Piece-Puzzle-Chapter-2 ...

I don't get this. What does the author mean by "pie-slicing"?

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#139

Post by ArkyBeagle »

kross wrote: post #81
ArkyBeagle wrote: post #58

I'll say this - a life lived in service to other people feels more worthwhile to me. Perhaps one of the services is being honest, even brusque at points. Just not very often. Actually solving problems for other people is mostly about framing the question underlying the problem. If they're not interested, then you're done with that problem. "Service to other people" is not some grand/altruistic thing; it's simply a pr…

I would pose that "service to others" if reflected upon, is exactly ego. You can feel good being of service to others, and you can feel diminished by not being of service to others. When you lose the good feeling, you want to do more, to reobtain that good feeling. "I am one who strives to live in service to others" (I am parahrasing) but if this is true, it is more clearly ego a.k.a. identification with form.

While I can see your point, this isn't about either egoism nor egotism. It's more of a heuristic to ... create utility and a way to stay engaged.

I'm not 100% sure I can read ego as "identification with form". That's a bit Zen for me.

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#140

Post by bnjms »

__abc wrote: post #109
rad88 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't. If you have difficulties with your children, using this term can only make them worse.

??? Why on earth would I say this to my children? ??? Such a weird assumption to make ...

It is the straightforward assumption that house ape was used to refer to the original posters son returned from adulthood and with a negative connotation. That is why the assumption was made. I cannot imagine what other use you could have imagined given such clear context.
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