Nintendo re-releases NES as mini console • Hacker News Board

Re: Nintendo re-releases NES as mini console

#131

Post by davb » Thu, Jul 14, 2016, 2:36 PM UTC

intoverflow2 wrote: post #76

davb wrote: post #49

I'm really interested in the architecture of this thing. I'm guessing ARM running a NES emulator (rather than ports of the games), since they've got such great experience doing that on the 3DS. If it's hackable, this would be a fantastic gadget. As a project box alone, it looks really pretty. HDMI out, USB power, and controller inputs make it really appealing. Depending on headers and connectivity inside, hacking a U…

> I'm guessing ARM running a NES emulator Really surprised people expect it's anything more than one of these but with official licensing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_Entertainment_System_...

I'm leaning towards ARM just because Nintendo already has a huge supply chain and manufacturing complex geared towards this architecture.

They're extensively bought into the ARM ecosystem. They already have a NES emulator on ARM (3DS NES Virtual Console). ARM SoCs are so incredibly cheap (look at the low volume RasPI with its HDMI output and now WiFI). The Nintendo hardware engineering teams have extensive ARM experience. There will undoubtedly be a business requirement for platform security (wrt the bundled games). This is, from Nintendo's perspective, a solved problem on their portable console platform.

Over a long period and at high volumes, sure - a NES hardware clone might make for a cheaper BoM. But that's not where the cost is here. It's in the engineering, initial supply chain and manufacturing startup. Sticking with ARM keeps all of those costs down.

Build a lightweight OS (based on the 3DS/2DS OS), able to run the same the same binaries, with the same libraries and you've cut out a massive amount of software engineering work and expense.

Ship some stripped down 2DS/3DS hardware, and you've saved a lot of hardware engineering work and expense.

I'd actually be surprised if it wasn't extremely close to the 3DS/2DS in terms of architecture, minus the IO, battery and secondary ARM CPU.

Re: Nintendo re-releases NES as mini console

#132

Post by Yhippa » Thu, Jul 14, 2016, 2:36 PM UTC

ashark wrote: post #95

_b8r0 wrote: post #59

I'm amazed noone here has mentioned RetroPie[1]. A model B Raspberry Pi or even a Zero (if you can get one) should play NES games perfectly fine. You can get USB NES controller adapters pretty cheap or some knock-off USB NES controllers instead. I have a SNES-USB adapter for my setup that takes two SNES controllers. [1] - https://retropie.org.uk/

I'd personally recommend Lakka[1] (Kodi's distro modded to boot straight to Retroarch) over it, having used both. Worth it for fewer problems with controller mappings, if nothing else. Boots to a usable GUI in ~3-4s on a Pi2, which is nice. If you're using a Pi it's easy to try both before deciding, so may as well check it out. Anyone in the market for hardware, I've found that the abilities of various devices tend t…

Glad I checked in here. Took a look at Lakka and the UI looks outstanding. I will have to give this a spin on my Pi2.

Re: Nintendo re-releases NES as mini console

#133

Post by josh_carterPDX » Thu, Jul 14, 2016, 2:37 PM UTC

Wait, but if there are games included does this mean I won't have to blow into the box to get them to work!?! I call shenanigans!

Re: Nintendo re-releases NES as mini console

#134

Post by happycube » Thu, Jul 14, 2016, 2:38 PM UTC

DSMan195276 wrote: post #115

vlunkr wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It says you can use the wii Classic controller, which is wireless

The Wii Classic Controller is wired. The port on the front of this console is the same port on the bottom of a Wii Remote, which makes it pseudo-wireless in a way, but there's no Wii Remote in this case so it is just wired.

Yup, it's I2C with a 1394-ish connector (which makers have taken advantage of before), so it is very easy to implement... with the added side benefit of selling a few of the standalone controllers for Wii[U] virtual console use.

The console itself is probably a simple ARM chip - the BCM2835 in the first-gen Raspberry Pi would work perfectly, among tons of other possible SoC's. It will probably be under a plastic blob, but someone will find out sooner or later ;)

Re: Nintendo re-releases NES as mini console

#135

Post by jonknee » Thu, Jul 14, 2016, 2:38 PM UTC

peatmoss wrote: post #82

davb wrote: post #49

I'm really interested in the architecture of this thing. I'm guessing ARM running a NES emulator (rather than ports of the games), since they've got such great experience doing that on the 3DS. If it's hackable, this would be a fantastic gadget. As a project box alone, it looks really pretty. HDMI out, USB power, and controller inputs make it really appealing. Depending on headers and connectivity inside, hacking a U…

15 years ago at a dodgy trade show booth in Vegas, I bought a $25 Nintendo clone controller that had been retrofitted to contain the guts needed to play a few dozen classic NES games that were pre-loaded. I'm pretty sure it wasn't emulation, but actual miniaturized Nintendo-clone hardware running the original (pirated) ROMs. I have a hunch this isn't emulating, but is instead playing "on the metal." The hardware (as…

> The profit margins on these consoles is going to be great.

That would be true if it was an emulator or "bare metal". The beauty of IP!

Re: Nintendo re-releases NES as mini console

#136

Post by acomjean » Thu, Jul 14, 2016, 2:39 PM UTC

stephankoelle wrote: post #44

chongli wrote: post #19

HDMI out? I wonder if they're going to simulate NTSC TV artifacts such as colour bleed and dot crawl. These artifacts are important for correctly rendering NES games according to their original design [0]. [0] http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/KylePittman/20150420/241442/C...

pal never had them

So was there an Nintendo in PAL format?

(PAL tvs had 100 more lines and refreshed a little lower 25, vs NTSC's 30 frames per second)

Seems like it would be a pain to make that work. Knowing the pain of PAL NTSC tv conversion.

Re: Nintendo re-releases NES as mini console

#137

Post by sdegutis » Thu, Jul 14, 2016, 2:39 PM UTC

SNES was the golden age of video games. I wish people would make more games in that style. Super Metroid will never be topped at this rate, and that's pretty sad. You don't have to make games look realistic to make them addictive and fun. Give me a world I can explore, with secrets I can discover, where my character can grow and gain new abilities and combine them for unique new experiences. Stuff like that.

Re: Nintendo re-releases NES as mini console

#138

Post by DominikR » Thu, Jul 14, 2016, 2:39 PM UTC

chongli wrote: post #19

HDMI out? I wonder if they're going to simulate NTSC TV artifacts such as colour bleed and dot crawl. These artifacts are important for correctly rendering NES games according to their original design [0]. [0] http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/KylePittman/20150420/241442/C...

Most younger persons might not care about this, but some are buying dedicated video hardware like the XRGB Framemeister to emulate the picture that you had back then on old CRT TV sets. (scanlines etc)

I don't like the sharp and blocky video you see today on modern LCDs when using old consoles. I also don't like the video filters that some emulators use to make the games not look too pixelated.

I just want it to look approximately (emulating it perfectly is probably out of scope for this price) as it did back in the 80ties. Hope Nintendo provides an option for scanlines.

Re: Nintendo re-releases NES as mini console

#139

Post by paulcole » Thu, Jul 14, 2016, 2:42 PM UTC

vlunkr wrote: post #112

paulcole wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I was hoping this tiny emulator would play SNES and N64 carts as well as GameCube discs. I mean seriously how much extra effort would it have been?

Probably a lot more actually. Tons more hardware for all the interfaces, (including a disk reader). And much beefier hardware to emulate a GameCube.

Yeah, I didn't realize that. Thought it would be super simple to make a product designed to do one thing do something completely different.

Re: Nintendo re-releases NES as mini console

#140

Post by DominikR » Thu, Jul 14, 2016, 2:45 PM UTC

acomjean wrote: post #136

stephankoelle wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

pal never had them

So was there an Nintendo in PAL format? (PAL tvs had 100 more lines and refreshed a little lower 25, vs NTSC's 30 frames per second) Seems like it would be a pain to make that work. Knowing the pain of PAL NTSC tv conversion.

It's probably better to emulate NTCS as PAL games very often ran slower when compared to the NTSC versions of the same game.