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A deportation at the UK border

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Re: A deportation at the UK border

#131

Post by ali-maki »

Keep in mind, this was a white American detained for some arbitrary visa restrictions which is a rarity. Middle Eastern individuals are very frequently put in the 'corral of shame' for reasons unbeknownst to them. I can't recall how many times I've been randomly searched, or have had officers keep an eye on me. I've also occasionally put through interrogations by irate border patrol over the mundane minutiae of my travel. Her entire ordeal is one I've faced several times solely based off my appearance and name.

These acts and laws only give legitimacy to discriminate and harass travellers of certain backgrounds, yet failing to add any measure of security.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#132

Post by lucozade »

eitally wrote: post #123
Zikes wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Being compliant and truthful with the authorities in a routine border crossing was her mistake." Whether or not it "just works", or how often people do it, that is just insane.

But the agents don't actually want to know why people are traveling. Knowing that forces them to actually do something that isn't routine, which is annoying and a time sink. It's better to withhold information unless explicitly requested, to simplify and streamline the flow for both you as passenger and they as agents.

> It's better to withhold information unless explicitly requested

But that's not the question. The question is whether or not it's better to lie about why you're travelling. Now, for some percentage of the time it probably is better in practice. But it's a trade with a fairly large downside. Border agents have lots of reasons to carry out checks so you'll need to be very sure that everything else is completely fine and be lucky you don't hit a random check.

And they do check. I've had to vouch for people at airports and they've checked social media, Google etc. For the lady in the article, it sounds like what she went through was solely for flouting work laws (and being rude but that would have just affected the degree of surliness). You get caught for directly lying and they'll be all over you for illegal immigration/terrorism. I would expect that to be more lengthy and more unpleasant than the unfortunate lady experienced.

My advice? If you want to earn money in a foreign country do it legally. At the very least check with the consulate/embassy and get their answer in writing if possible.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#133

Post by germanier »

janpieterz wrote: post #112
gsnedders wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However, the majority of foreigners entering both the UK and US do so without a visa, as far as I'm aware. In the UK case, typically no fingerprints are taken, whereas in the US they are.

Been to both countries a couple of times (I'm Dutch). Fingerprints got taken every time at the US, never happened to me at the UK border.

As an EU citizen they couldn't require you at the UK border even if they wanted too.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#134

Post by vinceguidry »

tobltobs wrote: post #93
vinceguidry wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is not to blame the victim for her actions, (that's in the past) but to advise on how to avoid such a situation yourself. (in the future) Border crossings are one of those utterly weird situations where not knowing what's up will put you at odds with people who have zero respect for your convenience or comfort and are perfectly willing to remove you from both. And you won't learn what's up the first, second…

And what would your "advise" be if she would get into trouble for lying to a custom officer? I guess something like "Just don't lie".

In order you to get in trouble for lying then they have to catch you in a lie. The easiest way for them to do that is for them to get you to admit to lying. This is why it's so important for you to give short, non-committal answers to their questions that reveal nothing, and to never let your guard down, because customs officials (any kind of security personnel, really) are not your friends.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#135

Post by exolymph »

kintamanimatt wrote: post #100

This is a horrible experience that she went through, but one quote stuck out: > The room’s only other occupants were men. I do not feel comfortable in rooms full of men I do not know with the door closed. Why? This doesn't make sense. What does she think is going to happen? Are most men really presumed to be rapists or something?

It's a Bayesian thing: relatively low risk that a given man will assault you multiplied by the extreme personal suffering of being assaulted = high alert in situations where it would be easy for a man to assault you. She's already vulnerable and exhausted. I would feel uneasy too.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#136

Post by semanticist »

rwmj wrote: post #18
jackgavigan wrote: post #7

Unfortunately, like other countries, the UK's Border Force[1] clearly has an above-average share of incompetents and bullies. If you give such people any power whatsoever, they will abuse it. Sadly, that's what happened here. The real problem is that there is no accountability in these organisations. Even if a complaint by Rachel triggered an investigation, the culture in organisations like this is to protect their o…

I'm never sure if Theresa May is evil or incompetent. It may be she is just incapable of controlling her department, although perhaps I'm being too charitable.

I strongly suspect it's the latter - every MP who becomes home secretary basically turns into a fascist, almost overnight. I guess they show them a bunch of secret reports on events that "almost" happened to scare them into going along with whatever the Home Office civil service have always been wanting to do.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#137

Post by kennell »

As someone whos job was to oranize visas for various countries around the world for some time, here is my advice. If you are doing this kind of semi-business/semi-pleasure/speak-at-aconference/whatever trips, just get a tourist visa. Everything else is a giant mess.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#138

Post by samastur »

arethuza wrote: post #34
fhood wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So do you think this is more of a policy problem or an attitude problem.

I have no idea - but I've traveled to a lot of places and in terms of friendliness of reception at the border the only place that was worse involved communists and large crew-serviced machine guns (NB crossing into Yugoslavia in the late 1980s by train from Italy). Edit: For the avoidance of doubt, I really like the US as a place to visit both for business and vacation, but the experience at the border can leave a lo…

I kind of doubt that your memory is correct. In late 80s you would see police and toll officers on Yugoslavian border crossings generally armed with pistols. Army did "protect" border, but I can't think of a place where they would be anywhere close to normal border crossing and they certainly did not have crew serviced machine guns there. Both sides used to have bunkers so maybe you meant those?

Otherwise getting across wasn't difficult, just annoying because of long columns of cars. It was worse for us locals, because there was general and usually correct assumption that we were smuggling something.

I can easily think of worse recent experiences (USA, India...).

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#139

Post by mewfree »

shawabawa3 wrote: post #40
bluehazed wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weird, I've literally never had this happen (Canada -> USA). I totally believe it, but now I'm wondering about in what cases this policy is applied.

> I've literally never had this happen (Canada -> USA). Did you fly in? I imagine it only happens at airports, not at land borders (I'm from the UK and I had my fingerprints taken at JFK)

I'm a French citizen living in Canada and going fairly often to the US by bus. They do it at land borders too, it's just that Canadian citizens are exempt.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#140

Post by memsom »

shawabawa3 wrote: post #40
bluehazed wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weird, I've literally never had this happen (Canada -> USA). I totally believe it, but now I'm wondering about in what cases this policy is applied.

> I've literally never had this happen (Canada -> USA). Did you fly in? I imagine it only happens at airports, not at land borders (I'm from the UK and I had my fingerprints taken at JFK)

Can confirm this is any non-Canadian, I'm from the UK -> fingerprints on a land crossing.
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