Apple R&D Reveals a Pivot Is Coming • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple R&D Reveals a Pivot Is Coming

#131

Post by TillE » Thu, May 12, 2016, 10:00 AM UTC

dba7dba wrote: post #115

Inconel wrote: post #38

I’ve read a number of articles about the prospect of an Apple car but most have still left me with more questions than answers. My main questions regarding an Apple car are the following: 1. Apple seems reluctant to chase market share at the expense of profit. The automotive industry is very well established and from my understanding operates on razor thin margins. Apple seems to be a master of the supply chain but m…

Apple might be viewed as a premium brand compared to Samsung/Moto/Lenovo/HP Samsung is in #2 spot in global brand valuation. Google, Microsoft, and Verizon round out top 5. http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/apple-is-the-most-valuab... EDIT: Upon a bit more research I find different valuations but still Samsung is up there.

> global brand

> Verizon

There's definitely something wrong with this.

Re: Apple R&D Reveals a Pivot Is Coming

#132

Post by lr » Thu, May 12, 2016, 10:02 AM UTC

Has this car thing in relation to Apple been confirmed? Nothing about the word Titan makes me think of cars.

Re: Apple R&D Reveals a Pivot Is Coming

#133

Post by no1youknowz » Thu, May 12, 2016, 10:04 AM UTC

According to venturebeat[0]. Samsung has 1m gear VR users. We all know how apple has a far superior supply chain, creates better software experiences and does things "right".

So is it that much of a stretch for them to actually come out with a mobile VR headset?

Think about it.

- They make the phones.

- They make the vr software.

- They already have the eco-system for you to get apps from and the developers to sell through.

- They can sell upgrades for face/hand tracking, etc.

What about a version of FaceTime, where 2 people can call each other and play a game together?

Within a very short time could exceed what Oculus is doing very quickly.

[0]: http://venturebeat.com/2016/05/11/oculus-and-samsung-have-1m...

Re: Apple R&D Reveals a Pivot Is Coming

#134

Post by abalone » Thu, May 12, 2016, 10:11 AM UTC

petra wrote: post #99

abalone wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, think the fundamental cockpit driving control interface. Not just the entertainment system (although that will be a nice synergistic element). Btw I agree about the watch, but it's also early days. The iPod might not have seemed as radical an improvement on other MP3 players either, at first. In retrospect the details made the difference between the product category working for people and not, and blew the catego…

OK, let's talk about interface. The major problem such interface has to solve - is how keep the driver aware enough of the road at times he needs to(legally, at all times) , while making it more FUN for him than regular driving, otherwise, why bother ? That's why i believe entertainment in some form, is critical. So maybe that siri personality is also built in such a way to enable all-time awareness by the driver, ef…

10X safer and/or less stressful would be more than sufficient to revolutionize cars. I think the notion that the only thing you can improve on is fun/entertainment is kind of stuck in traditional car thinking. Making cars safer and more convenient via autopilot features is where you get a 10X leap.

I doubt there will be anything like a "meditative state" -- that's dangerous. On the contrary a goal of the UI would be to keep the driver highly engaged with the vehicle computer at all times.

Re: Apple R&D Reveals a Pivot Is Coming

#135

Post by dba7dba » Thu, May 12, 2016, 10:15 AM UTC

TillE wrote: post #131

dba7dba wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple might be viewed as a premium brand compared to Samsung/Moto/Lenovo/HP Samsung is in #2 spot in global brand valuation. Google, Microsoft, and Verizon round out top 5. http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/apple-is-the-most-valuab... EDIT: Upon a bit more research I find different valuations but still Samsung is up there.

> global brand > Verizon There's definitely something wrong with this.

Well Microsoft is up there too so ...

Re: Apple R&D Reveals a Pivot Is Coming

#136

Post by sametmax » Thu, May 12, 2016, 10:18 AM UTC

no1youknowz wrote: post #133

According to venturebeat[0]. Samsung has 1m gear VR users. We all know how apple has a far superior supply chain, creates better software experiences and does things "right". So is it that much of a stretch for them to actually come out with a mobile VR headset? Think about it. - They make the phones. - They make the vr software. - They already have the eco-system for you to get apps from and the developers to sell t…

> We all know how apple has a far superior supply chain, creates better software experiences and does things "right"

"We all know" ? The starting point for your whole desmonstration is assuming general agrement of one of the biggest source of troll of all time ?

Re: Apple R&D Reveals a Pivot Is Coming

#137

Post by abalone » Thu, May 12, 2016, 10:25 AM UTC

jernfrost wrote: post #111

abalone wrote: post #62

It's a car and it's not a "pivot". The Mac, iPod, iPhone, iPad, Apple TV and Watch are all about apply the same philosophy to new product categories and then tightly integrating them. At the core of it is fundamentally rethinking the interface between user and machine. With cars it makes perfect sense as long as you do one thing first: throw out everything you've read about fully autonomous cars being right around th…

Agree, Apple is not going to get into cars unless they can do something fundamentally different. But I do think it is a problem that the car industry already has a sort of Apple Company, Tesla. A lot of what you could have done different has already been done by Tesla. A lot of guys at Tesla are from Apple so that is perhaps not odd. However do think there are some fundamental differences between Tesla and Apple. Tes…

> A lot of what you could have done different has already been done by Tesla.

Not at the software interface level. Tesla has done incredible work at the hardware level transitioning to electrics but the UI is still pretty old school. I.e. your parents could step into a Tesla and not know that there was anything different about it. Apart from having to plug it in, which you tell them is a Good Thing. That and some snappy performance.

If you think just a little bit ahead about where the next user-facing innovation is, it's autopilot. And the big thing to "get" is that it's not going to be some switch you hit that makes the car magically fully autonomous and you just sit back and take a nap. Rather to go beyond very limited scenarios and actually function on the real world road network and weather conditions, it's going to be about the human-computer interface.

So what does that look like? Is it just a flat panel screen in the center console next to your big steering wheel? Is that how the car is going to deliver safety-critical information to you that you need to supervise and potentially respond to within seconds? And how are you going to respond to them, through taps on screen dialogs?

Probably not. And there is where Apple will compete with Tesla, in the human-computer interface, as it did with the Mac, iPhone, iPad, etc... Even though they all had great hardware too, it was software that made a 10X breakthrough.

Re: Apple R&D Reveals a Pivot Is Coming

#138

Post by robert_tweed » Thu, May 12, 2016, 10:32 AM UTC

no1youknowz wrote: post #133

According to venturebeat[0]. Samsung has 1m gear VR users. We all know how apple has a far superior supply chain, creates better software experiences and does things "right". So is it that much of a stretch for them to actually come out with a mobile VR headset? Think about it. - They make the phones. - They make the vr software. - They already have the eco-system for you to get apps from and the developers to sell t…

I came here to say the same thing. I wonder where all these rumours about a car are coming from? Smoke and mirrors?

Frankly, that idea sounds ridiculous, but the first "good" VR headset is something that Apple is absolutely capable of delivering and importantly, it fits the R&D spending figures in the article (a car would cost them a lot more).

They also happen to have a number of unique strengths such as their own OS, their own SoC that give them a huge advantage over anyone else in market.

It also makes sense that Apple would not want Facebook to gain any traction with the Oculus Store in competition to their own App Store, so frankly it would be a huge strategic mistake for Apple not to release a VR device within the next 2 years. I just think they won't release anything until all the user-hostile kinks have been worked out.

Apple is not, as many seem to be suggesting in this thread, about applying "disruptive UX" to random markets like cars. They are about giving new technologies mass-market appeal. They take something niche (like MP3 players, smartphones, or VR) and they make it into something that everyone wants.

Re: Apple R&D Reveals a Pivot Is Coming

#139

Post by szc » Thu, May 12, 2016, 10:37 AM UTC

untog wrote: post #36

CPLX wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But there is just no way Apple is going to beat Google to market with that technology. Why? Apple is possibly the world's most effective company at synthesizing industrial design and software in premium devices sold to consumers. Google is a web/cloud services and advertising company. The reason presumably is that you can't see what Apple is doing in public, while Google has a car that still can't drive itself in t…

For one because there is no evidence of it. Apple are secretive but at some point you have to take a car out on an actual road to see how it fares. And get government permisison to do so. The fact that Apple has done neither leads me to suspect Google is further ahead.

This logic is flawed. If you want to test something secretly you do it in plain sight and use mis-direction. Buy some Tesla vehicles and put your electronics inside -- can you tell who owns the software and hardware inside when looking at the outside? Use a Chevy volt for the really juicy stuff, nobody will even blink. If you need to test a fancy new sensor, buy a white car and slap Google on the side, everyone knows Google is testing this stuff, so meh!

Re: Apple R&D Reveals a Pivot Is Coming

#140

Post by abalone » Thu, May 12, 2016, 10:39 AM UTC

iSnow wrote: post #117

bendbro wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know people have said this before and been very wrong for it, but I just don't think there's much in those constraints to innovate (read Blackberry). Unless you change the only fundamental aspects of owning a car (driving, parking, and maintenance), all you're doing is polishing a turd. If Apple is just building the car, and fully autonomous transport is out of the picture, then all they can hope to do is make it e…

>Unless you change the only fundamental aspects of owning a car (driving, parking, and maintenance), all you're doing is polishing a turd. I guess the real disruption in the automotive sector would be a focus on mobility instead of owning a car. Have a smartphone app where you could call a shared car from wherever you are whenever you wanted. It appears 10m later, takes you to your destination and then goes back into…

That service is available. You've exactly described Uber.

Driverless cars would be (further) disruptive but only if driverless cars are actually possible. That is mostly a tech press peak hype cycle fantasy right now. Even Google made a public statement throwing cold water on that, saying it could take 30 years.

Meanwhile the disruption we could actually face is with 10X improvements in safety and comfort via semi-autonomous driver assistance features. A car that mostly takes care of itself, but still requires a human pilot that remains engaged, aware and alert, particularly in situations that are more dicey. You know, like how airplane autopilot works.