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Firefox Test Pilot

testpilot.firefox.com

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Re: Firefox Test Pilot

#131

Post by CelticSuperhero »

alphapapa wrote: post #123
callahad wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You asked us to implement X. We confirmed that we've begun work on implementing X and provided a way you can follow the progress. You then chose to respond with sarcasm and disdain. What productive outcome could we possibly reach from that exchange?

Frankly, your response is indicative of the problems at Mozilla. You need to realize that behind every sarcastic, disdainful comment about Mozilla or Firefox is years, often nearly decades, of Firefox usage, contribution, and promotion. When people come to trust and rely upon a tool for getting work done for many, many years, and then the organization responsible for that tool starts changing priorities in ways that…

That is the point.

Is it so surprising that power users are the most vocal one's and do complain if one of their pet features is going to be axed? (And many of our pet features have disappeared since that Chrome UI annoyance called Australis has ruined a big part of Firefox)

And instead that Mozilla goes back a step towards power users and brings our features back what do we get instead? Features which more simple minded users do want and prefer.

It is the deconstruction of Firefox as geek base what we hate and that is the reason we are so vocal about it.

The moment where Mozilla makes a significant turn back to their roots, the moment will be the one where complaints are going to stop or at least where people can believe in Firefox again.. a little bit.

Re: Firefox Test Pilot

#132

Post by CelticSuperhero »

kuschku wrote: post #41
6a68 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear your frustration; people inside the company found some of those changes frustrating, too. Test Pilot is a step in a new direction that's more participatory and inclusive of the community, and injects a lot of data into the decision-making process. As far as web standards go, Gecko's the only open-source browser controlled by a nonprofit. The alternative is a webkit monoculture, a world controlled by Apple and…

btw, regarding UI and extensibility, a suggestion that many advanced users want to give is: look at Vivaldi ;)

Vivaldi has amazing features, yes.

But it is no real browser and only an advanced web app bundled with Chromium. Also, smashing a wrapper on top of Chromium with features and call it a day is one of the most stupid things ever which a group of developers can do.

But Vivaldi shows what guys do when they have respect of power users. They add features we want and we prefer and not only features what simple users or Chrome users want and prefer.

Re: Firefox Test Pilot

#133

Post by burfog »

stymaar wrote: post #110
ksec wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is not, it is not rare to have 120 tabs, in fact some extreme even have 400+ Tabs openned. Today is rather lightweight for me and has 70 Tabs. Of coz these wont be all loaded, Once you close and reopen those tabs will be unloaded. They are more like a list of things to read and do.

I currently have 753 tabs open on this computer alone :p But as you say, it's not a problem at all because there are not loaded until I go back to them. The only issue I have with massive number of tabs, is the start-up time of the browser, which increase dramatically with the number of tabs (it's at least quadratic).

Did you count them? How can you be so exact?

Re: Firefox Test Pilot

#134

Post by rhelmer »

amake wrote: post #98
burfog wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, don't blame extensions. I don't run any. Here is what a modern browser is expected to handle: Open and close tabs and windows, browsing the modern web without extensions. Keep it up for weeks, having 10 to 30 windows, and an average of 10 tabs (some at 40). You have 5 to 12 gigabytes of RAM to work with, and at least a 1920x1200 screen. (maybe a 4k screen) That's it. Expectations for older hardware: run for weeks…

Did you actually read and understand his comment? > I don't run any. You don't have to. The existence of extensions creates constraints on how they evolve the browser's internals.

Correct, supporting existing extensions constrains the architecture of Firefox.

Extensions themselves can also introduce performance problems of course.

Re: Firefox Test Pilot

#135

Post by rhelmer »

seeekr wrote: post #113
rhelmer wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, I forgot to mention in my sibling comment - extensions are frequently pinpointed as the cause of (or a contributing factor to) performance problems. Additionally, many of them rely on older features in the Mozilla architecture, which makes it very hard to fix without breaking extensions that people rely on. While there has been and continues to be significant work in this area, the Web Extensions project has been…

Correct link: https://wiki.mozilla.org/WebExtensions

Oops, thanks!

Re: Firefox Test Pilot

#136

Post by kuschku »

CelticSuperhero wrote: post #132
kuschku wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

btw, regarding UI and extensibility, a suggestion that many advanced users want to give is: look at Vivaldi ;)

Vivaldi has amazing features, yes. But it is no real browser and only an advanced web app bundled with Chromium. Also, smashing a wrapper on top of Chromium with features and call it a day is one of the most stupid things ever which a group of developers can do. But Vivaldi shows what guys do when they have respect of power users. They add features we want and we prefer and not only features what simple users or Chro…

Exactly. I’d never use vivaldi, but many of its features are awesome. I’d also love if Firefox had a way to adapt the UI color to the current page, if I could have as nicely animated tab previews, and many of the other settings.

Firefox started working on many features for power users (look at testpilot’s vertical tabs), but let’s hope they#ll do more.

Re: Firefox Test Pilot

#137

Post by spiznnx »

burfog wrote: post #133
stymaar wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I currently have 753 tabs open on this computer alone :p But as you say, it's not a problem at all because there are not loaded until I go back to them. The only issue I have with massive number of tabs, is the start-up time of the browser, which increase dramatically with the number of tabs (it's at least quadratic).

Did you count them? How can you be so exact?

If you try and close the window, firefox will be default warn you and tell you how many tabs you have.

Re: Firefox Test Pilot

#138

Post by mistermann »

Morgawr wrote: post #107
mistermann wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have 12GB of RAM and probably ~120 tabs open at any given time. This used to be fine, but it seems Firefox is just getting worse over time, the main problem is the frequent 5 to 30 second pauses while it is doing....something.

>the main problem is the frequent 5 to 30 second pauses while it is doing....something. Oh god I thought I was alone on this. I've been talking to various Firefox users and nobody was able to relate with me. I usually keep Firefox open 24/7 with around 20-30 tabs open (~6 or so pinned). Every time I am typing (like in a hangout popup window or in a HN comment) Firefox is micro-stuttering and freezing and it eats away…

Man I dunno, that seems like something else entirely. Maybe try installing NoScript?

Re: Firefox Test Pilot

#139

Post by callahad »

alphapapa wrote: post #123
callahad wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You asked us to implement X. We confirmed that we've begun work on implementing X and provided a way you can follow the progress. You then chose to respond with sarcasm and disdain. What productive outcome could we possibly reach from that exchange?

Frankly, your response is indicative of the problems at Mozilla. You need to realize that behind every sarcastic, disdainful comment about Mozilla or Firefox is years, often nearly decades, of Firefox usage, contribution, and promotion. When people come to trust and rely upon a tool for getting work done for many, many years, and then the organization responsible for that tool starts changing priorities in ways that…

My response was solely critiquing an exchange which ended up looking like:

    if (requestFeature(x)) { complain(); } else { complain(); }
That flow doesn't get anyone to a better place, but there are tons of ways to refactor it into productive dialogue. Let's do more of that.

I promise you that I legitimately do hear the frustrations felt by long-time power users of Firefox. I don't agree with all of them, but I do my best to represent them internally nonetheless. To your concerns regarding stable APIs: that's exactly what WebExtensions are designed to address: decoupling add-on APIs from implementation details so that we can keep add-ons working, even as we refactor Firefox to be faster, more stable, and more efficient.

Re: Firefox Test Pilot

#140

Post by callahad »

rhinoceraptor wrote: post #69
callahad wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You asked us to implement X. We confirmed that we've begun work on implementing X and provided a way you can follow the progress. You then chose to respond with sarcasm and disdain. What productive outcome could we possibly reach from that exchange?

Sorry for being rude. It comes from a place of love, I think Firefox plays an extremely important role in the open web, and for that I'm very grateful.

Thanks, it's all good. :) Aside from the input types, what other pain points are you seeing?
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