Nearly all new diesel cars exceed official pollution limits • Hacker News Board

Re: Nearly all new diesel cars exceed official pollution limits

#131

Post by oarsinsync » Tue, Apr 26, 2016, 10:43 AM UTC

verytrivial wrote: post #58

bkor wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tests weren't the problem. VW made it so the car only passed during the tests. A test should be somewhat reproducible and that conflicts with not being able to cheat the test. The solution would be to throw some people in jail. Your suggestion that it was even mandatory for companies to behave this way is so weird that I cannot respond to that.

Your first two sentences seems to contradict one another. The assumption was the cars would behave the same in tests versus how they are driven by real drivers, but THAT WASN'T IN THE TEST! Test it! Randomly give them an 4 hour driving profile including resistance and acceleration generated from a model of drivers, fail if it diverges by X% from the reproducible baseline. This is what people are complaining about (la…

> Companies are required to act in the interests of the shareholders. These companies were required to pass the synthetic tests. If the manufactures spent precious resources "wasting" R/D and manufacturing effort going beyond the requirements placed upon them to ship expensive but already conforming vehicles, they would be savaged in the markets, and executive open to litigation for dereliction. I'm not defending it, by the way -- this is how capitalism works.

We have an example in Apple that does exactly this, with a CEO that makes statements during quarterly earnings summary calls openly admitting exactly this, and there is no lawsuit. This is also how capitalism works.

Re: Nearly all new diesel cars exceed official pollution limits

#132

Post by oarsinsync » Tue, Apr 26, 2016, 10:48 AM UTC

rurban wrote: post #130

InclinedPlane wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think that this: http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2015/09/vw-stock-s... is coercing a corporation to be an amoral entity? No, VW thought they could get away with cheating, and they were found out, with disastrous consequences to their bottom line. The obvious market serving behavior would have been to avoid cheating. When VW cheated they were serving neither the public nor their shareholders, they were j…

First of all, they didn't caught VW cheating, they caught Audi cheating, amongst others. VW was using those Audi engines. The press just jumped on VW, because they were the biggest and can take the biggest hit. Second, the cheaters, and all of them were cheating as already presented at the CCC congress some months ago, used all the same Bosch ECU, which had the cheating option built-in with a misleading variable name…

> First of all, they didn't caught VW cheating, they caught Audi cheating, amongst others. VW was using those Audi engines. The press just jumped on VW, because they were the biggest and can take the biggest hit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi Owner Volkswagen Group (99.55%)

Re: Nearly all new diesel cars exceed official pollution limits

#133

Post by cptskippy » Tue, Apr 26, 2016, 7:04 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #94

cptskippy wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also means 'obviously' or 'obvious in hindsight'.

https://www.google.nl/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=defi... You can find alternate uses for many words and then you can go and spend many hours debating your reading of what someone wrote but given that I've (1) already answered your question with my response and (2) those do not seem to be the dominant meaning of the term I think that further debate of this particular matter is pointless. Pointless -> 'not usefu…

I wasn't debating you. I was seeking clarification. You asked how I misinterpreted what you said. I explained how I misinterpreted it. That's not really a debate but rather a discussion. I guess people found what I said to be contentious because I've been downvoted to hell but I was just asking for clarification.