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Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

psychologytoday.com

131–140 of 281 posts

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#131
I have said this a few years ago on this very site. Should I publish an article instead?)

So is Asperger's by the way. Mild forms of autism, it seems, is an adaptation of a brain to cope with overwhelming cognitive overload of certain types, usually related to other people and unfamiliar places, which could be compared to too loud noise or an attacks of height-sickness.

And there is no single cause, of course. The symptoms are results of some genetic predisposition (slight differences in brain structure, perhaps, or higher levels of some neurotransmitters) and environmental and social factors, which conditioned the resulting habits and behavioral patterns.

One of the simplest and less wrong theories about mild forms of autism is that of so-called mind blindness. The children who have difficulty with maintaining eye contact and are looking to a mouth area instead of eyes area, could not learn to properly read accompanying emotions form faces of other people, so they constantly confused about interpreting the intentions and behavior of others and easily fooled by fake "Pan Am" smiles, so they learn to avoid confusing society and develop what we call introvert or nerdy mentality, with typical social awkwardness and eventually lack of interest in all these clowns, which clowns label sociopaths.)

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#132
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have this wacky idea that maybe, just maybe we should reconsider the point at which opiates would be appropriate for treating depression. I mean maybe make them a 2nd or 3rd line treatment... right now I'm pretty sure they'd only give you opiates once that whole "induce a controlled seizure" thing fails. Sure, they're addictive, but the "opium cure" was used up until the 1950's[1] and it's not like society was over…

each year 19,000 americans die from prescription opioid overdoses and another 10,000 die from heroin overdoses which often start with prescription opioid use. In my experience (as an anaesthesiologist), people who use opioids as a response to non-pain problems are some of the most miserable people there are. It might work for a couple of weeks, but soon you're tolerant, addicted, intermittently withdrawing and your l…

I appreciate your input as a medical professional.

Are you familiar with studies using NMDA receptor antagonists to reduce opiate tolerance?

For example, here's a study they did on mice: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10763858

Also, don't you think your sample is biased as a doctor? As in: the people you're likely to encounter in your line of work are those that are in need of medical care?

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#133
post #7
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real depression comes out of nowhere, hits you like a ton of bricks, and makes you wish you weren't alive.

I agree with this, but I also think a lot of "non-real depression" is too easily diagnosed as the real thing. A lot of depressed people could be "cured" by just changing circumstances in their life (not that it is always easy, but saying there is stuff in your life you can't change and it is making you depressed, doesn't make it a mental illness). But you have worn out doctors facing a tough choice: do the near impos…

>but saying there is stuff in your life you can't change and it is making you depressed, doesn't make it a mental illness

The only practical consequence of whether something is a mental illness or not is whether the person experiencing it will receive help in feeling better. I would characterize your position as cruelty, bordering on straight-up evil.

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#134
post #83
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really understand how any part of what you said refutes the article. > There are days that I feel like I am the luckiest man in the world, technically speaking The reality is that each person's needs are different, and just because you are the luckiest man in the world based off society's values doesn't mean your individual needs are being met. I sympathize with the fact that you have depression but I don't r…

The biggest issue I take with the article is a classic chicken and egg problem. The article takes the stance that your depression is there because of your life choices and some factors that aren't in your control. I'm of the very strong opinion that the exact opposite is true.

What really is the exact opposite here? That depression has nothing to do with your environment and only to do with your body?

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#135

What does this have to do with software or tech? are developers all depressed or something? Is this site just turning into another reddit? Someone please help me to understand why hacker news should be a safe place for depressed people to talk about their feelings, there has to be a better venue for that.

It may not be directly related to the tech industry, but I certainly appreciate seeing more openness on the topic - especially because our mental state of mind impacts everything from motivation to try new things; to read and digest new information; to apply for a new job; and to hold a job. And so much more.

Obviously, this is not exclusive to the tech industry, but I don't think that's any reason to shy away from like-minded people having discussions on the topic (by using HN).

On the topic of mental health, I have recently had more pleasant and/or constructive conversations on HN than I have in years on other social media sites (reddit, facebook, twitter, tumblr). I also enjoy reading the comments and discussion on the subject quite a bit from the HN community.

FWIW, I did also discover devpressed.com recently thanks to another mental health related thread and I'm grateful for that as well. Wouldn't have found that resource without HN.

- SysEng with mental illness.

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#136
post #19

Amen to this article. As one who myself once believed my depression "came out of nowhere" (but which, in retrospect, was an obvious symptom of my emotionally destructive family and school environment) and who tried for many years to smother those feelings with antidepressants, I feel strongly that this article presents a wiser path. Evolutionarily speaking, it seems likely that depression/anxiety are there for some p…

While I agree with you on some points, one has to be careful with anything that tries to explain away a complex phenomenon.

After all, there are quacks out there trying to explain away cancer as a symptom, not a disease (see: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/163184.Cancer_Is_Not_a_Di...).

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#137
post #97
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with using a purely neurochemical explanation like this is the rates of these disorders differ dramatically between societies and within societies geographically, demographically and over time. It is clear that the United States in particular is, especially in recent years, churning out unprecedented numbers of severely psychologically ill individuals. The idea this is solely due to previously undiagnosed…

Medication is essentially victim blaming by society unto the individual reacting against its conditions. And the medical health specialists are agents of society, not the person they're ostensibly helping.

Not trying to contradict you, but it's also one of the precious ways offering a shot at helping people overcome depression.

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#138
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But drugs are awesome :D Seriously though, compared to being depressed when you can't fix it because you don't have any idea that something is wrong, drugs are fucking amazing. The shitty part is people end up trapped now as the drugs can fuel the negativity which lead to the depression in the first place.

But drugs are awesome :D Completely depends on the drug, person and context. The painkillers when I dislocated my shoulder and they had to reset it? Wonderful. The antidepressants that after several weeks (so once they'd started "working properly"), made me feel "not unhappy" but like a robot and then also gave me vivid, real nightmares in which I died horribly over and over again? Not so great... I'd never touch ant…

Yet your experience doesn't necessarily match the experience of everyone. It's just a anecdotal to say that your issues with anti-depressants (all of which work differently on different people; even drugs within the same "family") are the same for everyone as it is to invalidate someone else's depression with some BS "I was depressed once, but I pulled myself up by the bootstraps and got better, so that's what everyone needs to do" story.

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#139

So I have depressive symptoms for quite some time. I've talked to my doctor like 2 years ago about it. He told me that the only way to get a therapy is to seek out a therapist on my own. This is fine, I can understand that. Just like an alcoholic must accept that he has problems and seeks out for help. I am not going to lie, it is a tough thing to do. But as an general scepticist I have the huge problem to find someo…

Finding a therapist isn't so magical. The key things they will do is provide empathy and view your life from a third person perspective, and has training in the way the mind works, particularly how it goes wrong. If you can find a therapist who does a good job understanding you and who you respect, they can help you solve many problems.

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#140
post #39

I'm not a psychologist or have received any other professional training in this direction but really I think there are two types of depression. - Clinical depression. The disease type that for many "comes out of nowhere" and paralyzes people to the point where they can't leave bed any more. I'd venture to say it's the minority of cases but the author may be wrong in putting them in the same group as the... - Symptom…

Clinical depression is frequently caused by extreme emotional long-term fatigue which is self-sustained because of not identified and fixed issues that cause the depression. So it's not a pathology, it's just very extreme fatigue. To make an analogy -- loosing weight because of not eating is not a pathology. Fix nutrition and you will stop losing weight. But if you don't fix it -- you can get into a very severe condi…

What we hear when you say

>it's not a pathology

is that the medical establishment ought to respond to those who approach it in immense pain by saying, "this is working as expected, go away."

To use your analogy, if a patient presents with a problematic degree of weight loss, the appropriate response is not "yeah, that's what happens when you don't eat, bye." It's to figure out why they aren't eating, and how to get them to eat. Loss of appetite is a symptom of all sorts of pathologies, from an obsession with mass-media standards of beauty to all sorts of fun physical disorders, and a doctor would investigate these avenues and resolve whatever is responsible so that the patient starts eating again.

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