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Hidden motors for road bikes

cyclingtips.com

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Re: Hidden motors for road bikes

#131

Post by bbarn »

buro9 wrote: post #43
davidw wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Actually 6 weeks ago Femke Van den Driessche was caught with a motor in the Cyclocross World Championships. He discussed that: she was not caught using one.

That doesn't matter, the UCI code considers all equipment that a rider or team possesses within the confines of the race area as to be part of the equipment covered by the rules, and every rider and team knows this. The presence, within or on the margins of a cycling competition, of a bicycle that does not comply with the provisions of article 1.3.010. The use by a rider, within or on the margins of a cycling competi…

My point isn't whether she broke a rule or not - she did, and deserves the ban. My point is no one has actually been caught taking advantage of the assistance from a motor during competition, and there are doubts as to it's true efficacy. It isn't just additive free watts, the type of "pedal assist" you get with top end bikes hasn't been miniaturized enough (to the known world) to be hidden, with a hidden battery. Look at the top end Bosch based e-bikes out there, it's a different world completely. These are more like if you can't put out X watts already, it will give it to you, not stack it on your existing high power. They can make a non-athlete get through a difficult section of terrain, but no one's seen anything that can augment a 1200+ watt attack enough to make it worth the risk in a ProTour race.

I firmly believe the tech WILL catch up that can do just that but it's not there, or if it is, it's being developed in relative secrecy. That just doesn't make any sense to me. Who is investing R&D money into this? For what return? They aren't getting prize money, sponsorship kickbacks.. the whole sport of pro cycling is dying financially without help from any external source. It's a very dated sponsorship model and races are drying up all over the world.

Re: Hidden motors for road bikes

#132

Post by bbarn »

ezzaf wrote: post #118
kazinator wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no forced cadence. The motor is not fixed at a particular RPM; if the motor were unloaded, it would spin a lot faster than it does. It supplies a certain amount of power, and the bike hits a certain ground speed, and through the gear ratio, that determines the motor's speed. If you only want to go that fast, then you don't have to crank the pedals, and it's awkward. However, you can crank the pedals to go ev…

This is a great description of why motors can make a big difference in racing. Even small differences in power output can make a big difference in an elite race where so little can mean the difference between winning and not. It's easy to imagine using a tiny motor (much smaller than the one mentioned in the article) could make the difference between winning and being an also ran. However I have to nitpick on one poi…

Yes, the math says so. Have a look at the video I posted above though. While E-assist bikes can do this, these hidden motor versions just don't in the real world, for racers. I do believe it will, at some point, I just don't think it's there yet. There's just no money in developing it right now.

Re: Hidden motors for road bikes

#133

Post by sawthat »

bigiain wrote: post #130
kazinator wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no forced cadence. The motor is not fixed at a particular RPM; if the motor were unloaded, it would spin a lot faster than it does. It supplies a certain amount of power, and the bike hits a certain ground speed, and through the gear ratio, that determines the motor's speed. If you only want to go that fast, then you don't have to crank the pedals, and it's awkward. However, you can crank the pedals to go ev…

This is what I call my "cheater bike": https://www.dropbox.com/s/nu2q0srtj62w3gl/cheater-bike.JPG?d... It's a 250W rated bunch of Chinese-sourced parts on a $50 eBay steel framed budget mountain bike. It's _so_ hilarious to ride, a friend says "it make you feel like Lance Armstrong!". It just makes everything too easy. I barely ever take it out of top gear - I just lazily pedal up hills, zoom along the flat, and have…

Just curious: why not ride a regular bike to work? I've been doing it for a year now (16.5 miles round trip) and it has been great. I never could find the time to exercise before and now I commute and exercise at the same time. Parallelism!

Re: Hidden motors for road bikes

#134

Post by bigiain »

sawthat wrote: post #133
bigiain wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what I call my "cheater bike": https://www.dropbox.com/s/nu2q0srtj62w3gl/cheater-bike.JPG?d... It's a 250W rated bunch of Chinese-sourced parts on a $50 eBay steel framed budget mountain bike. It's _so_ hilarious to ride, a friend says "it make you feel like Lance Armstrong!". It just makes everything too easy. I barely ever take it out of top gear - I just lazily pedal up hills, zoom along the flat, and have…

Just curious: why not ride a regular bike to work? I've been doing it for a year now (16.5 miles round trip) and it has been great. I never could find the time to exercise before and now I commute and exercise at the same time. Parallelism!

Because lazy! At least mostly. Also we don't have shower facilities at work, so during summer (I'm in Sydney, so summer hasn't quite ended yet) I end up quite sweaty riding to work.

I do have a non-cheater bike as well, I ride it more when it's cooler (but I'm still lazy, so...) More exercise is the plan. Executing on that plan isn't always successful.

Re: Hidden motors for road bikes

#137

Post by frik »

dheera wrote: post #136

Let's forget about cheating on races. I want one for my commuting bicycle so it still looks like a normal bicycle so thieves won't be interested in it.

You may want a moped. And there are eletric powered mopeds as well (they aren't that expensive).

Re: Hidden motors for road bikes

#138

Post by derekp7 »

sawthat wrote: post #133
bigiain wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what I call my "cheater bike": https://www.dropbox.com/s/nu2q0srtj62w3gl/cheater-bike.JPG?d... It's a 250W rated bunch of Chinese-sourced parts on a $50 eBay steel framed budget mountain bike. It's _so_ hilarious to ride, a friend says "it make you feel like Lance Armstrong!". It just makes everything too easy. I barely ever take it out of top gear - I just lazily pedal up hills, zoom along the flat, and have…

Just curious: why not ride a regular bike to work? I've been doing it for a year now (16.5 miles round trip) and it has been great. I never could find the time to exercise before and now I commute and exercise at the same time. Parallelism!

I'm looking at getting a similar setup for myself this summer. I hear "that's cheating" or similar from others, in which case my response is: Do you ever use a calculator? Why not work out everything with pencil and paper (or better yet, in your head)?

Of course, several years ago after I decided to get in shape, I tried cycle commuting and really enjoyed it (about 15 miles each way). But I could only pull it off about once a week or so (in order to make good time, it left me mostly worthless at work all day). Coming up, after I move in a month I'll be about 23 miles from work. Adding a hub motor will allow me to not only make the commute in just over an hour, but it will leave me less exhausted (I plan on still putting in some human power, but I won't have to over do it). The good thing though, is by adding electric power to a bicycle, it will get me on it much more often so I'll end up getting even more exercise than without power.

Re: Hidden motors for road bikes

#139

Post by TwoBit »

brudgers wrote: post #95
TheTon wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's Cancellara winning Strade Bianche this past Sunday: https://youtu.be/X8YJH23dIAc I think it looks pretty similar in terms of terrain, style, and effort, and it was a win over a tough field. With all the concern about mechanical doping, they checked his bike and there was no motor in it. Of course there's no way to know what happened in 2010 for sure, but he has shown he doesn't need a motor.

I remember watching Miguel Indurain blow past great climbers without leaving the saddle during the 1990's. His resting heart rate was recorded at 28 beats per minute. The best cyclists are outliers among outliers.

surely indurain was doping, though.

Re: Hidden motors for road bikes

#140

Post by ranko »

Grishnakh wrote: post #57
davidw wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Messing with the height of someone's seat by pulling it out before a race would ... not be seen very well. A lot of people can tell when it's off by a few millimeters. But yeah, they are doing inspections these days.

Bike seat height adjustments are very simple: the seat is mounted on a tube, which fits within the slightly larger seat tube and then is clamped. Getting the exact same position is easy: just use a Sharpie marker on the inner tube to show where it fits in the outer tube. Draw a second, vertical line across both tubes to make sure the orientation is the same.

It's not that simple with a carbon frame...
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