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Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

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Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#131

Post by SilasX »

jwiley wrote: post #97

During the dot-com bust of the early 2000s, I was working at a super-market. One of the guys stocking shelves was a software engineer laid off by a large company after 40 years. The management at Winn Dixie put him stacking boxes in the freezer section...since they knew he needed the money and wouldn't quit. Maybe he deserved to get fired, maybe he didn't. The lesson to me that has been reinforced over my career in t…

And learn how to job search. There's surely a better job that guy could have found.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#132

Post by gozur88 »

metaphorm wrote: post #100
gozur88 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, actually a company is its shareholders. Literally. Employees are the hired help.

shareholder capitalism is a noxious falsehood that has very unfortunately been enshrined in our current interpretation of the law. this should not be regarded as a baseline truth nor a desirable transitional state. it is a bad idea that we must not succumb to. companies are multi-faceted entities with many different stakeholders. the workers are a 100% necessary stakeholder and the company cannot operate without them…

And... so what? Sure, the company needs employees, but it doesn't need the people who are there.

What's noxious is the whole idea of "stakeholders", as if working somewhere gives you some kind of ownership. If you want to own your job you need to be self employed.

If I hire someone to cut my grass is he now a "stakeholder" who needs to be consulted when I sell my house?

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#133

Post by reddytowns »

jacquesm wrote: post #88
reddytowns wrote: post #82

What a dastardly fellow! How dare the elected officer run his company as he sees fit WHY ALL THE DOWNVOTES!!?!?!?!

She.

Damn English and its lack of gender non-specific pronouns!

Seriously, though... what is the implication that I am missing? What is the point of bringing up the CEO's pay? Should it be government mandated, is that what you all believe?

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#134

Post by Gigablah »

kazinator wrote: post #92
ImTalking wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's the one who said to me "If you walk like a duck, quack like a duck, act like a duck, you are a duck" like he was the Oracle of Delphi.

OOP visionary, wow. (And if your birth certificate and other papers say you're a duck, but you don't quite walk like one, then you're a subtype of duck. If you're a subtype of duck which has a thumb and a nose, then you use these appendages together to show disdain for Barbara Liskov's Substitution Principle.)

That's just anatine-centrism.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#135

Post by IndianAstronaut »

dredmorbius wrote: post #117
mathattack wrote: post #40

Here's what I don't get... If you have any options at all, why stay at a company with sub-par technology that abuses their workers? They've been stuck in low 3 Glassdoor [0] range for a while. It's layoff after layoff as they slowly dismantle the company. Why stay? Geographic limitations? Narrow skillsets? [0] https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/IBM-Reviews-E354.htm#trend...

Among other factors mentioned: employer-specific skillsets. Technology jobs are very highly specialised. And I'm not just speaking of computer tech. I'm old enough to have seen several generations of obsoleted "gold tickets". Nuclear Engineering, future destroyed March 28, 1979. Freeway engineers, the freeway protests of the 1960s/1970s. Big Three auto manufacturers, dream destroyed with the first oil embargo, and su…

This is why I think learning new marketable skills should be everyone's hobby. Also, in our field or any professional field, you really should be very financially secure after 50 so that a job loss doesn't hurt you.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#136

Post by ryandrake »

SilasX wrote: post #127
dredmorbius wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Among other factors mentioned: employer-specific skillsets. Technology jobs are very highly specialised. And I'm not just speaking of computer tech. I'm old enough to have seen several generations of obsoleted "gold tickets". Nuclear Engineering, future destroyed March 28, 1979. Freeway engineers, the freeway protests of the 1960s/1970s. Big Three auto manufacturers, dream destroyed with the first oil embargo, and su…

>It's not that these people are dumb, many were brilliant. But they're also laden with a tremendous amount of arcane knowledge, that, unfortunately, gets in the way of learning new skills. I don't use the term "brilliant" for anyone who can't learn outside their narrow specialty.

It's not a matter of not being able to learn. Of course they can learn. It's a matter of not being able to instantly re-specialize in the next "in demand" skill.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#137

Post by tryitnow »

x0x0 wrote: post #111
gozur88 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Geographic limitations are a big deal. I'm in the same sort of position as the IBM'ers, in that my company is slowly farming out what used to be internal apps to SaaS companies and moving the remaining jobs to a contractor in India. My family is local, and as I get older that's more and more important. If I have to leave town it's going to have a big impact on my happiness. So much so, in fact, that I may take a huge…

And before someone suggests moving to silly valley, consider doing so requires accepting a 98%+ chance you will never own a home unless you're willing to put up with a horrific commute. In most of sf/peninsula detached homes cost $1.5m+. And even a condo is difficult to afford on the salaries available. Home ownership for most of us requires a startup win giving you at least $0.5m after taxes plus you and your spouse…

Plus there's no guarantee that moving to the Bay Area will prevent similar problems.

There's a boatload of reckless spending on developers and engineers right now. It's only a matter of time before financiers start pushing for headcount reductions.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#138

Post by ryandrake »

SilasX wrote: post #131
jwiley wrote: post #97

During the dot-com bust of the early 2000s, I was working at a super-market. One of the guys stocking shelves was a software engineer laid off by a large company after 40 years. The management at Winn Dixie put him stacking boxes in the freezer section...since they knew he needed the money and wouldn't quit. Maybe he deserved to get fired, maybe he didn't. The lesson to me that has been reinforced over my career in t…

And learn how to job search. There's surely a better job that guy could have found.

I think you're forgetting what the early 2000's were like for software developers.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#139

Post by pm90 »

wallflower wrote: post #129
dredmorbius wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Among other factors mentioned: employer-specific skillsets. Technology jobs are very highly specialised. And I'm not just speaking of computer tech. I'm old enough to have seen several generations of obsoleted "gold tickets". Nuclear Engineering, future destroyed March 28, 1979. Freeway engineers, the freeway protests of the 1960s/1970s. Big Three auto manufacturers, dream destroyed with the first oil embargo, and su…

Perhaps IBM has more workers that are like the workers at AT&T than we would have expected. AT&T is in a difficult position as its extremely large workforce is being attacked into irrelevance by new technology upstarts. > To Mr. Stephenson, it should be an easy choice for most workers: Learn new skills or find your career choices are very limited. “There is a need to retool yourself, and you should not expect to stop…

It is a really nice thing that they are taking the right steps, but personally, I am very very pessimistic. Just encouraging people to take classes is one thing, but them actually applying those skills to solve the problems that at&t faces...that is a different question.

I really really do hope that it works out though; my rational mind believes it otherwise.

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