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SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

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Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#131

Post by a-saleh »

monkmartinez wrote: post #45
Afforess wrote: post #9

To play devil's advocate, he's right. He shouldn't have to see the pain, struggle, and despair of homeless - the city government should be providing affordable housing and shelters for the homeless. That it hasn't is a failure of the local government, and should be addressed. Much of the reason that affordable housing is out of reach of many in San Francisco is due to government regulation, not market capitalism. Ext…

This is a complex issue... but in my experience, most of the homeless are not looking for help to find jobs and/or contribute to society in manner that will lead them out of "homelessness." A lot of them prefer this "lifestyle"... we try very hard to help the people that want help. Most don't. Go talk to your local EMS/Fire department personnel and most of them will have similar stories. I know the homeless people in…

Sometimes I feel this "most of them prefer the way it is" is just a way to make excuses for us not solving a problem.

For example in my city of ~ quarter mil. people, there are approximately 1000 people living on the streets and another 1000 without home (no adress, permanently living in hostels, people in prisons that no longer have home).

Currently I know that there is project that focuses on the families without home (afaik 300-400 ppl?), where the plan is to move them into the city owned flats (there is more than 20 000 flats owned by the city with several hundred empty)

I like the logic behind that. To catch people without home before they end up on the street and give them an adress. What do you think?

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#132

Post by microcolonel »

mabbo wrote: post #121
citizensixteen wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A lot of them prefer this "lifestyle" I used to also think that many homeless "preferred the lifestyle of homelessness" but I recently learned of a town in Canada (Medicine Hat) that found it more cost effective to house the homeless. This myth that people prefer to be homeless was shattered and this town found that nearly all homeless were able to reintegrated back into having their own places. The mayor was skepti…

Our super-Conservative government for the last decade (now replaced by a young, hip, Liberal one) was actually really big behind the 'housing-first' method of helping the homeless (you get an apartment, no questions asked, then we work on your drug problems, etc later), and put a lot of money towards it. At first, this seems very socially liberal and at odds with a Conservative party kind of thing until you look at t…

Too bad the new hot thing will be "does this politician have a vagina?".

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#133

Post by francasso »

It has always been a great cause of reflection to me that when reality catches up with us our reaction, most of the time, is denial and refusal. The entrepreneurial spirit should aim at solving the problem. Complaining is not the most creative solution. The mentality according to which "we work hard and we earned the right not to see the pain of homeless people" is just naive. The only thing you earned the right to is what life gave you, and this is true for both sides.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#135

Post by doki_pen »

Practicality wrote: post #97
toxican wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, what on earth are the limits for a millennial? My late-20s self, a 9th grader and a man in his 30s should not all be classified the same...

It does seems like anyone under 40 is now a millennial. The most recent clear definition I have heard is anyone born between 1980 and 2000. So anyone ~16 and under is a new generation, currently called Gen. Z, but they may get another name soon. It does seem like the media is absorbing Gen X into millennials now for some reason. I don't know why. Baby Boomers vs everyone else?

I'm 38. I can relate to millennials, but I'm not one. I know many people my age that can't relate at all.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#136

Post by ktRolster »

citizensixteen wrote: post #95
monkmartinez wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a complex issue... but in my experience, most of the homeless are not looking for help to find jobs and/or contribute to society in manner that will lead them out of "homelessness." A lot of them prefer this "lifestyle"... we try very hard to help the people that want help. Most don't. Go talk to your local EMS/Fire department personnel and most of them will have similar stories. I know the homeless people in…

>A lot of them prefer this "lifestyle" I used to also think that many homeless "preferred the lifestyle of homelessness" but I recently learned of a town in Canada (Medicine Hat) that found it more cost effective to house the homeless. This myth that people prefer to be homeless was shattered and this town found that nearly all homeless were able to reintegrated back into having their own places. The mayor was skepti…

Utah did the same thing:

http://www.npr.org/2015/12/10/459100751/utah-reduced-chronic...

The article mentions that some people had trouble adapting to their new houses. Some slept in tents inside their house, others still slept on the street several days a week until they got used to having a house.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#137

Post by basseq »

Coding_Cat wrote: post #46
discardorama wrote: post #35

I think he does have a point... but he could have put it better. I live in SF too; for ~10 years. I have never seen it this bad. The City passed a "sit/lie" law a couple of years ago.. but it's never enforced. The City is spending $1M/month ... for housing 225 people[1]. Do the math, and you'll see how ridiculous is that. At that rate, how much do you think the City can spend on the homeless? It has 7000 homeless, an…

>You can't force them to use detox clinics, etc. Maybe it is not possible yet legally, but why shouldn't we allow this? The courts can already force people to be commited for mental afflictions when they are a danger to themselves or others. Why not do the same for (heavy) drug addicts who start becoming a liability?

Especially considering the alternative is forced incarceration. Mandatory treatment at least focuses on improvement.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#138

Post by DINKDINK »

wlesieutre wrote: post #90
StavrosK wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I visited SF a few times, and I was always horrified to see how such a wealthy city leaves its homeless people to wander around, sleep in the cold and generally live in inhuman conditions. I won't claim I know enough about the city from two visits to propose any solutions, but I know that the fact that there are hundreds or thousands of people living like that is inexcusable. I've never seen this before to such exten…

> sleep in the cold Are we talking about the same city here? I'd call SF "occasionally chilly" at best. That's part of why so many homeless people gravitate to CA; if you're sleeping outdoors there are many, many worse climates for it. > The coldest day of the year is December 26, with an average low of 44°F and high of 55°F. https://weatherspark.com/averages/31587/San-Francisco-Califo... Related: did you know that w…

>did you know that windows can crack from thermal stress like cookware that you cool too rapidly?

This is called thermal shock [1]. Basically thermal expansion mismatches cause internal stress beyond the material's Ultimate Tensile Stress and causes a fracture. It's the underpinning to how tattoo removal works too.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#139

Post by maxerickson »

jonknee wrote: post #112
citizensixteen wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A lot of them prefer this "lifestyle" I used to also think that many homeless "preferred the lifestyle of homelessness" but I recently learned of a town in Canada (Medicine Hat) that found it more cost effective to house the homeless. This myth that people prefer to be homeless was shattered and this town found that nearly all homeless were able to reintegrated back into having their own places. The mayor was skepti…

Being homeless in Calgary is a lot different than the SF Bay area (you don't die in the Winter being a big one!). I'm positive there are many in SF who would benefit from a similar program, but there would still be a ton of homeless people.

http://www.sfgate.com/nation/article/Salt-Lake-City-a-model-...

I searched "salt lake city homeless" remembering the program there and the SF Gate article discussing it's applicability to SF happened to be the first result, so I'm just embracing the irony, not trying to force it.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#140

Post by joeguilmette »

I was in Chinatown talking to my grandmother on my cellphone. A homeless person walked up and punched me in the face.

SF has the worst homeless problem I've ever seen in the first world, and it rivals the worst of what I've seen in the third world.

It's a disgrace and it sucks and I don't have to like it. Whatever the local/state government is doing isn't working. And sure, maybe a lot of the homeless are just normal folks down on their luck.

But as others have pointed out in this thread, a lot of the homeless are also:

* There by choice

* Violent criminals

* From out of state

* Mentally unstable

I can have empathy for them and also want them not to piss and shit in public, beat me up, steal from me, turn a quaint downtown into a war zone (Santa Cruz), ad infinitum.

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