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Search Hillary Clinton’s Emails

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Re: Search Hillary Clinton’s Emails

#131

Post by ethbro »

caseysoftware wrote: post #123
ethbro wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which works when you're the President and can have a custom device made. But what about when you're Secretary of State? Or even, god forbid, some poor functionary down at the bottom end of State? Or the Department of Indian Affairs? I absolutely agree that protecting classified information by whatever rules are in place is of primary importance. However, we've all seen dysfunctional organizations. So I'm also sympath…

> ignoring soft guidelines Except we're not talking about "soft guidelines" or simple recommendations but actual laws: * Executive Order 13526 - https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/executive-order-... * 18 U.S. Code § 793 - https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/793 * The 2009 Federal Records Act * (probably) The Freedom of Information Act in addition to a classified information non-disclosure agreement:…

When >25% of government workers respond that private emails were used at least some of the time, that's an institutional problem.

http://www.govexec.com/insights/state-internal-workplace-com...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/clintons-experience-...

Re: Search Hillary Clinton’s Emails

#132

Post by snowwrestler »

PKop wrote: post #58
SeanLuke wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the current investigation, they've discovered classified emails - some classified after the fact, some not "some not"? If you are implying that Clinton's server held messages marked as classified when sent, could you provide some evidence to this effect? The Clinton campaign is quite adamant that this is not true.

This is a red herring. It doesn't matter if it was marked or not. It is up to the sender to take the precaution. That there are now thousands of emails marked after the fact as classified, wouldn't that tell you the assumption should have been made to err on the side of caution, and assume most everything you are discussing has high probability to be classified information? And using your own insecure personal server…

There's a fundamental misunderstanding about classified material, which is that it becomes de-classified once it is public. Not true.

For example, take the Wikileaks information dump, which came from a huge cache of State Dept. cables and has now been covered in hundreds of public newspaper articles. If one of her friends forwarded one of those articles to Clinton, boom, she now has classified information in her email. Why? Because those cables, despite being leaked, were never de-classified.

Another example: a lot of the stuff revealed by Snowden was classified at a very high level. It still is today, even though it is widely available public information. Can you see how this could cause problems for someone who is a government official, but has friends/family/contacts who wish to discuss these news articles?

The press is a well-known vector that leads to a lot of government staff having classified information in their unclassified email systems. Typically investigations are rare and prosecutions rarer, because it's basically impossible to prevent and does no practical damage (since the info is already out there).

This is why the mere fact of having classified material on an email server does not necessarily imply incompetence or malice.

Re: Search Hillary Clinton’s Emails

#133

Post by snowwrestler »

jonnybgood wrote: post #130
SeanLuke wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> some of the emails contained information that was classified at the time she sent/received them. As far as I can tell, the article to which you refer says nothing of the sort. It says that the email contains information which was classified after the fact. The article is based on the Inspector General's letter ( http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2016/images/01/20/2016.01.14.-.... ), which says the same thing. Do you hav…

What is classified after the fact? It's pretty straight forward in that letter. The emails contained info derived from classified info. Info derived from classified info is itself classified. There is no classified after the fact. It was all classified from the get go.

Classified after the fact means marked classified after the fact.

This matters because a lot of publicly available information--stuff we all know, stuff you can read in the paper today, or can be easily found on Wikipedia--is nevertheless considered classified information. There is no possible way that a single person can keep it all straight in their head, which is why State staff (and others) rely on the markings on documents (digital or otherwise) to know how to treat them.

Re: Search Hillary Clinton’s Emails

#134

Post by brandonmenc »

salgernon wrote: post #122
brandonmenc wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A rare lapse in following procedure, likely accidental, is not even on the same planet as setting up a private email server to avoid oversight. Those emails would still be safer on gmail than in some small IT firm's bathroom closet.

You are asserting that she did this to avoid oversight. If that were truly the case, wouldn't she have had a drastic hard drive failure and unreliable backups? That model has worked for IT departments for years. Isn't it far more likely that she instructed someone on her staff to instruct someone in the back office to instruct some underpaid admin to just "make crap work so I can stop using dialup?" I know we cannot…

> parent was edited and my reply appears nonsensical. The parent stated that the server was set up to avoid oversight

Still does.

> I do not believe has been established as true

The only reason for someone in her position to set up a private email server is to avoid oversight - it's bizarre that anyone could think otherwise - the burden of proof is on her at this point.

Re: Search Hillary Clinton’s Emails

#136

Post by res0nat0r »

leroy_masochist wrote: post #120
eli wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> " court papers filed with the plea deal stated Petraeus in 2011 unlawfully gave Broadwell the black books of classified information including identities of covert officers, code word information, war strategy, intelligence capabilities, diplomatic talks and information from high-level White House National Security Council meetings. " > " Petraeus then lied to the FBI about it, the court papers said. " source: http:…

> Clinton choosing to use a private email server was a big mistake, but Petraeus' actions are MUCH worse. Not even in the same category. Always great to hear from people who know how open investigations will be resolved. To be clear: HRC is accused not only of conducting official business in a manner that was completely unauthorized from an infosec perspective and in direct violation of both IC standards and a Presid…

Her server setup at the time was legal and authorized. Most of your info above is incorrect.

Re: Search Hillary Clinton’s Emails

#137

Post by snowwrestler »

leroy_masochist wrote: post #120
eli wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> " court papers filed with the plea deal stated Petraeus in 2011 unlawfully gave Broadwell the black books of classified information including identities of covert officers, code word information, war strategy, intelligence capabilities, diplomatic talks and information from high-level White House National Security Council meetings. " > " Petraeus then lied to the FBI about it, the court papers said. " source: http:…

> Clinton choosing to use a private email server was a big mistake, but Petraeus' actions are MUCH worse. Not even in the same category. Always great to hear from people who know how open investigations will be resolved. To be clear: HRC is accused not only of conducting official business in a manner that was completely unauthorized from an infosec perspective and in direct violation of both IC standards and a Presid…

> HRC is accused not only of....

No accusations have been leveled at Clinton, except in the press. That is, she has not been indicted, arrested, or charged.

That's not a "Team Hillary" thing, that is the literal truth of the legal situation.

Petraeus was charged and convicted.

Re: Search Hillary Clinton’s Emails

#138

Post by jedberg »

jonknee wrote: post #81
jedberg wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other interesting piece of information is the incredible amount of access Chelsea gets given her experience level. Obviously, her connections have helped her. In her defense though, she seems to be living up to it.

Wouldn't it be more shocking if her daughter didn't have access to her own mother?

I didn't mean her mother, I meant the other people she was traveling with.

Re: Search Hillary Clinton’s Emails

#139

Post by ForHackernews »

fineIllregister wrote: post #135

Why are they scanned pdfs of printed copies of the original e-mails? It's clear in several of these e-mails there are hyperlinks, which are completely lost.

Frequently when the government is forced to release documents by FOIA requests, they do in the most deliberately inconvenient way possible.

Previous example: https://www.propublica.org/blog/item/a-readers-guide-to-the-...

> The emails, which presumably could fit on a few discs, now fit in six boxes and weigh 250 pounds per set. Journalists have trekked to Juneau to pick up them up. (Mother Jones notes that the state is helpfully lending journalists “hand trucks” for hauling the boxes out.)

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