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U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia has died

nytimes.com

131–140 of 382 posts

Re: U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia has died

#131
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you know him personally, or know someone who knew him personally, or is there some other reason beyond "you profoundly disagreed with him" that would lead you to calling him a "terrible person"?

> Did you know him personally, or know someone who knew him personally, or is there some other reason beyond "you profoundly disagreed with him" that would lead you to calling him a "terrible person"? Is there anyone you would call a terrible person? "No" is an OK answer here. Are any of them people you did not know? Again, "no" is an OK answer here. I'm not the poster you're responding to, and I'm sympathetic to the…

Yes, there are people I think are terrible.

Yes, some of them are people I don't know.

Would I say it on the day their death was announced? Tougher question.

Candidly: if I felt like most of the people calling Scalia a "terrible person" were well acquainted with his work, beyond sound bites like "opposed marriage equality" or "thought we should shoot condemned convicts first and then hear their appeals", I wouldn't chide. But it seems like the more cut-and-dry an opinion you get about Scalia, the less well-informed and helpful it turns out to be.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia has died

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not possible, since a senate confirmation this close to elections is likely to just be punted on for a year.

Well, consider: You're a Senate Republican. Obama nominates a guy who is certainly no Scalia but legitimately isn't the worst . You can hold out and hope that a Republican gets elected, but there's a good chance that'll be Donald Trump, and what kind of a judge is that weirdo going to nominate? You hate that guy and think he's a blemish to the name of the Republican party. Also, there's still a real risk Hilary/Sande…

Trump said he'd nominate his sister. I doubt he'll get the nod, and I doubt we'll see anything until after the election since it will energize both sides. It's too good a fund raising tool for red and blue to pass up.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia has died

#133
I usually disagreed with Scalia, but I have tons of respect for the man. He's always struck me as one of the best examples of the idea that two intelligent, educated people with reasonable minds may legitimately come to different conclusions about the same set of facts.

I also found when reading transcripts of oral arguments that Scalia was really terrifically funny pretty often.

Once, I was doing some computer repair work for an attorney who was interviewing Scalia extensively for a book about Supreme Court oral arguments. It was late in the day, and all the other staff were gone.

The phone rang, and the attorney asked me if I would answer it since I was close, and tell whoever it was that he was busy. I picked it up and the voice on the other end said, "let me speak to x." I said he wasn't in. The voice says, "I know he's in. Let me speak to him please." I tried to deflect again, and he finally says, "This is Justice Scalia. I guarantee you your boss wants to talk to me."

Without thinking I piped up and said, "Oh, Justice Scalia! You won't believe who just walked in the door! Just a second."

Apparently Scalia thought that was hilarious and told the guy to pay me extra for popping off to a Supreme Court justice like that.

Edit: as a quick sidenote, I'd encourage everyone to actually read the oral arguments and the full opinions for important cases as they come up. The media is absolutely terrible about over simplifying or just straight up not getting the issues correct.

You will find that there is a hell of a lot of thought that goes into opinions, and there is much less predetermined ideology than the way these things often get painted.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia has died

#134
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If Republicans oppose the nomination, that could be used as political leverage against them during the election. "Them" being Republicans, or Democrats? Trying to understand.

It will be interpreted as Republicans shutting down the government... again. Moderates and Independents, and Centrists on both sides tend to strongly dislike that, and it could swing the election to a Democrat victory.

I think it's far easier to sell the argument that the voters should decide on who gets to nominate a replacement for Scalia, than that we should shut down national parks or whatever. These aren't remotely the same type of "shutdown".

Re: U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia has died

#135
post #9
post #3

A judge quoted in the article said, "my educated guess is nothing will happen before the next president is elected." Presumably he's talking about selecting a replacement to the supreme court. Is this accurate? How long does this process typically take?

Unlikely to be correct re: nomination, though it's difficult to know how the election will effect the confirmation process, and vice versa. Kagan was nominated May 2010 and confirmed August 2010; Sotomayor was nominated May 2009 and confirmed August 2009. I'm inclined to expect a nomination sooner rather than later, potentially of a candidate with very strong Democratic support. If Republicans oppose the nomination,…

>5. Citizens United was 5-4 with Scalia supporting the decision (this is what created superPACs), so potentially this could result in a limitation of corporate personhood

I think that phrasing is deceptive. The question isn't whether corporations are people with rights, but whether people retain their rights when they coordinate the exercise thereof through a corporation, which includes non-profit groups. It should be a red flag that abolishing that right would abolish the free press without some special exemption. That requires the government to start defining who is press and who is not, which if anything is a quickly fading distinction. The distinction between MSNBC/Fox News and a SuperPAC is not so clear. (Thankfully, we have such an exemption because the first amendment particularly protects the freedom of the press, in addition to the general freedom of speech. There's a lot of examples of redundant provisions in the Constitution, and I think this is one of them. The freedom of the press flows naturally from all of the other freedoms in the Constitution.)

The particular case was actually about a political group that made a film criticizing Hillary back in 2008 during the primary season. The government wanted to ban them from promoting it during the two months leading up to the election. How can anyone think that's proper?

Let's say that you and I shared a passion for a political idea. We want to convince people of it and effect change through the political process. What would we do? We'd set up a non-profit (a corporation), convince donors of our cause, spend their money on pamphlets, broadcast ads, internet ads, discussion forums, etc. We'd support candidates that back our idea, and oppose those who oppose it. That is freedom at work and it's exactly what the Citizens United decision protects.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia has died

#136
post #43

He didn't actually say that, and I'm not sure how it spread. However, he's still a terrible person, and here's the quote yours spawned from: “There is no basis in text, tradition, or even in contemporary practice (if that were enough), for finding in the Constitution a right to demand judicial consideration of newly discovered evidence of innocence brought forward after conviction.” edit: This was originally in reply…

Text, tradition, and contemporary practice being far more important than justice, to Scalia.

But how do you define justice?

Guys like Scalia see the role of the justice system as systematically enforcing the laws as written. They believe that as they are unelected, they have no moral right to simply make things up as they go along, and thus that their work should be mechanical and predictable - even if it results in a suboptimal outcome.

Now, the implications of the above quote are pretty disturbing, at the same time, can I really disagree with it? I am not a constitutional scholar and don't know if it's accurate, but if the constitution really has nothing in that allows for a retrial if new evidence comes to light, that sounds like a bug in the constitution and would need to be fixed. If you skip that bit and ask judges to just do what makes sense to them instead of what's written, then the democratic process ends up being bypassed.

So even if someone disagrees with that point of view, I'd hope they can at least understand it.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia has died

#137
post #127

There has been some discussion here about whether or not Obama has time to get a replacement nominated and confirmed, or whether the Republicans can slow things down enough to push it to the next President (who they hope will be one of them). I wonder if it might be better for the Democrats to not even try to get a nominee through before the next election. From what I've seen liberal/progressive leaning younger voter…

Senator McConnell has announced that the Senate will not take up a Supreme Court nomination this year. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbIYaMiW4AIU4ZB.jpg

Re: U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia has died

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish Gore had won, and I don't know enough about law to have an opinion on the specifics of the case. But I am at peace with it for a simple reason: that election was within the margin of error. We can put a lot of stake into details of state law, but in reality it was a draw. Frankly I think the fairest thing would be a coin flip. In absence of that, I think "play it where it lies" is a fine proxy. I don't think a…

I believe a privately run recount was conducted afterwards and Bush still won.

Depends on your standard and which recount you look at. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_election_recount#Post-... :

> under the strictest standard, where only a cleanly punched ballot with a fully removed chad was counted, Gore won by three votes.[38] Under all other standards, Bush won, with Bush's margin increasing as looser standards were used. ... because of the possibility of mistakes, it is difficult to conclude that Gore was surely the winner under the strict standard ...

While in another analysis "Bush won under stricter standards and Gore won under looser standards"

And there are also the "spoiled ballots" where "people had punched and written in a candidate’s name", eg, for people who would "check Gore and write Gore". These were rejected, even though the voter's intent was clear. "The Washington Post found that Gore’s name was punched on 46,000 of the over-vote ballots it, while Bush’s name was marked on only 17,000"

But with all the attention on hanging chad, we didn't hear about that last issue. (I didn't until I read it just now!)

Re: U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia has died

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not possible, since a senate confirmation this close to elections is likely to just be punted on for a year.

McConnell already said that Obama should wait for the next POTUS: http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/269389-mcconnell-dont-rep...

McConnell is a racist and doesn't like Obama.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia has died

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not possible, since a senate confirmation this close to elections is likely to just be punted on for a year.

McConnell already said that Obama should wait for the next POTUS: http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/269389-mcconnell-dont-rep...

Which, I'm sure, McConnell himself would do if he were a sitting President.
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