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High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

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Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#131

Post by gohrt »

skewart wrote: post #42

"Say, ‘I’m open to a salary commensurate with the job,” recommended Blake Nations, a former recruiter who was laid off and then founded Over50JobBoard.com. “And if they keep going, ask: ‘What do you expect to pay someone with my experience and education for this position?'" This. If you're asked early on just flip the question back to them. Companies don't publish salaries for jobs because they're afraid of turning p…

That advice doesn't apply at all when you are going through a recruiter who is or plays dumb: "I just need you to fill in this form so we can proceed. [I don't care if if makes you mistrust me and management, and you come in on Day 1 suspicious and with low morale]" Big companies, at least, have a relatively streamlined process to tilt the negotiations in their favor as much as they can systemically.

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#132

Post by whoiskevin »

joezydeco wrote: post #34
pmoriarty wrote: post #20

"Time and again, he says, employers seem to lose interest after he answers a question that they ask early on: 'What was your last salary?'" I never answer that question. Almost always it's been recruiters asking that (and only some recruiters, the less reputable ones). This is a seller's market for IT talent. You don't have to give in to bullying tactics to get a good job. I've had to walk away exactly once when a re…

But it goes the other way, too. I've been contacted by many many recruiters offering interesting jobs but won't discuss the salary range targeted for that position. So how much time are you willing to spend on resume polishing, phone screens, on-site interviews, getting to an offer ...just to find out that they can't even come close to your current salary? So now I just flat out say what my jump-number is. Any answer…

So now I just flat out say what my jump-number is. Any answer other than "yeah, we can work with that" is a reason to end the conversation and save everybody's time.

Can't upvote that enough! I've been doing this for years. I don't have time to waste and if they won't talk the numbers there is no point in having the conversation. Statements like "we are competitive" or my other favorite "can you send us proof of your current salary" are hilarious. The proof is my favorite. What is the point of that? If I won't talk to you for less than x dollars there is no value in proving what I currently make.

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#133

Post by noarchy »

sirkneeland wrote: post #80
smileysteve wrote: post #27

I find recruiters hurt this more than help it too. If you tell them your last salary, they'll just try to get enough % more to make it worth the transition.

Why not tell them an imaginary salary then?

>Why not tell them an imaginary salary then?

Indeed.

After all, some companies suddenly become "flexible" once they find a candidate who really blows them away. Their alleged "top range" becomes malleable. So their range can be imaginary as well. In the information war that both sides are waging, similar tactics can be used.

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#134

Post by corin_ »

arprocter wrote: post #89
lmm wrote: post #33

The tendency to talk about salary upfront is a good one for both sides - it avoids wasting everyone's time when the expectations simply don't align. It does need to be mutual though. I expect employers to include some salary guidance in a job ad. And if they claim to offer market rates, I expect them to live up to that.

It's strange to me that US job ads don't state the wage being offered. In the UK a ballpark pay figure is normally expected information

Depends on the industry, I see lots of management/marketing/bizdev job postings which just say something along the lines of "competitive salary offered", including roles where you'd guess the salary might be £20k or £150k.

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#135

Post by merpnderp »

kzhahou wrote: post #120
srpeck wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My standard response is "What is the pay range? Who is the client?" to the recruiter emails. The recruiters that get back to you generally mean business. Because of this, I have a huge amount of data on contract rates now. Also, a good side effect is that at least someone is telling them their rates are too low. Hope it helps another consultant down the line...

You should share that data, help your fellow job hunters. Last time I worked at a BigTechCo, salary ranges were $85-100K for juniors, 120-130 mid-level, and 150-165 for senior devs. Bonuses tend to hover around 30%. Of course, stock grants varied widely. The largest IC pay I saw was $2M/year for a someone who years ago was part of a famous project -- semi-known guy. More recently, I've seen (indirectly) BigTechCo's o…

300-350 for mid level developers and up to 600 for seniors? Where is this?

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#136

Post by fleitz »

whoiskevin wrote: post #132
joezydeco wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it goes the other way, too. I've been contacted by many many recruiters offering interesting jobs but won't discuss the salary range targeted for that position. So how much time are you willing to spend on resume polishing, phone screens, on-site interviews, getting to an offer ...just to find out that they can't even come close to your current salary? So now I just flat out say what my jump-number is. Any answer…

So now I just flat out say what my jump-number is. Any answer other than "yeah, we can work with that" is a reason to end the conversation and save everybody's time. Can't upvote that enough! I've been doing this for years. I don't have time to waste and if they won't talk the numbers there is no point in having the conversation. Statements like "we are competitive" or my other favorite "can you send us proof of your…

Yup on every call a sale is made, either you sell them on a reason they can pay you that much or they sell you on a reason they can't.

Taking on a fuck you pay me attitude is the best thing that ever happened to my life.

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#137

Post by pmoriarty »

vinceguidry wrote: post #123
pmoriarty wrote: post #20

"Time and again, he says, employers seem to lose interest after he answers a question that they ask early on: 'What was your last salary?'" I never answer that question. Almost always it's been recruiters asking that (and only some recruiters, the less reputable ones). This is a seller's market for IT talent. You don't have to give in to bullying tactics to get a good job. I've had to walk away exactly once when a re…

I would not tell recruiters my current salary, ($75K) but I did tell him my target salary, which was market rate for a mid-level Ruby dev in my city. ($115K) He wanted to go in at $110K. I kept telling him how odd it was to be negotiating salary upfront, and he told me "that's just how recruiting works." I just shrugged and let him do his job. If I'd wanted to negotiate my salary myself, I wouldn't be using a recruit…

"If I'd wanted to negotiate my salary myself, I wouldn't be using a recruiter."

For me, recruiters are useful for two reasons: to find me interesting opportunities and to help me get an interview.

When they've served those two functions, I'd prefer them to just get out of my way. From that point on, I feel my own interests are best served by me representing myself.

The recruiter's real customer is not really any one particular candidate, who they might see just once in their whole career, but the employer, who will likely be a repeat customer if the recruiter satisfies their needs. Looked upon from that perspective, it's not always in the recruiter's interest to land the candidate the highest salary possible. That might get the recruiter a higher cut that one time, but their real customer might not be too pleased if the recruiter keeps sending them expensive candidates. They'd be far happier if the recruiter managed to get them a sweet deal on a good worker.

So I'll just keep doing my own negotiations, thank you very much.

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#138

Post by kzhahou »

merpnderp wrote: post #135
kzhahou wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should share that data, help your fellow job hunters. Last time I worked at a BigTechCo, salary ranges were $85-100K for juniors, 120-130 mid-level, and 150-165 for senior devs. Bonuses tend to hover around 30%. Of course, stock grants varied widely. The largest IC pay I saw was $2M/year for a someone who years ago was part of a famous project -- semi-known guy. More recently, I've seen (indirectly) BigTechCo's o…

300-350 for mid level developers and up to 600 for seniors? Where is this?

Big tech companies in silicon valley.

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#139

Post by dogma1138 »

matthewcford wrote: post #121
dba7dba wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my experience at small medium startups, some dev gets higher pay because he/she is attractive and socially well adjusted and not nerdy. Not necessarily better coder.

> socially well adjusted Don't underestimate this. Being a better code doesn't make you a better employee.

Nope but they tend to serve other needs like keeping a good social structure within the company and being presentable to investors or doing client facing pre-sale / post-sale work besides coding.

There are allot of ways that a company can monetize their employees and allot of factors that end up being calculated to come up with the figure they end up paying for them, being socially well adjusted and attractive can have a good effect on your salary as people both tend to equate intelligence to good looks oddly enough and that they could use you for other things as well.

In some cases it also might be ticking a box kind of thing I've seen companies recruit attractive females before to both tick the diversity box and to keep some of the more social awkward coders working harder (this came directly from the mouth of a female headhunter that even boasted she specializes in hiring office eye candy that can do some coding on the side).

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#140

Post by thedufer »

aplusbi wrote: post #103
pc86 wrote: post #23

> After more than 20 years as an electronics engineer, Pete Edwards reached the low six-figure pay level. Where is it that late-career engineers are barely pulling in six figures? Don't get me wrong, it's a lot of money (3x mean personal income in the US, and ~1.75x mean HHI, give or take), but I'd expect most senior folks in any engineering field to be in the mid 100k range if not pushing 185ish. > Time and again, h…

"Six-figure salary" encompasses everything from $100k to $999,999 (okay, that's a bit pedantic perhaps but you get what I mean). $185k is still low six-figures.

"six-figure salary" implies a log scale, I would think. So 185k is about a quarter of the way from 100k to 1M. Still potentially "low", I suppose.
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