Why a German billionaire says that pledges like Mark Zuckerberg’s are really bad • Hacker News Board

Re: Why a German billionaire says that pledges like Mark Zuckerberg’s are really bad

#131

Post by zo1 » Thu, Dec 03, 2015, 6:00 PM UTC

radicalbyte wrote: post #11

The problem with the American system isn't the culture of direct donations from private individuals. The problem is that too few people have the means to give: it's the distribution of wealth. A culture where private people donate is really attractive. I know that I get a lot of joy when I help people out - I donate regularly to the causes I feel important (mainly Africa, as a Brit living in Netherlands I figure I ow…

"Wouldn't it be nice to live in a society where "everyone" enjoyed the gift of giving?"

I fully agree with this, even though I completely disagree with the concept of taxation. If you have to have taxation to somehow collectively pay for the things society supposedly "needs", then have everyone pay for it. We are, after all, in the same boat, so we should all pay for it. And when I say everyone, I really mean everyone that has any income.

Though, to be fair, I live in a society where something close to 90% (the bottom-most earners) don't pay any income-tax at all. And stuff, society and government function. Sort of.

Re: Why a German billionaire says that pledges like Mark Zuckerberg’s are really bad

#132

Post by HiLo » Thu, Dec 03, 2015, 6:00 PM UTC

Afforess wrote: post #56

HiLo wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that discussion of his $100 million donation simply not count in your book? Did it not show up in your browser?

It's not relevant because their current pledge is significantly different in how it is managed (previous was a 503c charitable contribution, current is an LLC-based corporation that will have stricter control over allocation of funds).

The legal structure has nothing to do with the principal here, stop obfuscating the argument.

Re: Why a German billionaire says that pledges like Mark Zuckerberg’s are really bad

#133

Post by HiLo » Thu, Dec 03, 2015, 6:00 PM UTC

slavik81 wrote: post #109

HiLo wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is entirely subjective. What about those who devote their lives to a cause and go into government? Your money is better than their passion? This line of logic would suggest mercenaries are always have more incentive than soldiers.

I know many people who work in government. They do their job and they take home their pay. Nothing more. If they became personally invested in the outcome of their work, they'd probably eventually quit, because they have little ability to actually make a difference.

Hey, did you know that's 95% of the private sector, too?

Re: Why a German billionaire says that pledges like Mark Zuckerberg’s are really bad

#134

Post by Chathamization » Thu, Dec 03, 2015, 6:01 PM UTC

HiLo wrote: post #80

merpnderp wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make it sound like Zuckerberg's donation in Newark happened in a vacuum. It happened in tight collaboration with the school system, who stated needs and approved every step of the process. It's not like Zuckerberg stepped in and said "you shall obey!!!" Course in this case it just turned out that not only could the democratically elected government of Newark magically waste all their tax revenue, they were excell…

Nothing happens in a vacuum. With great power comes great responsibility - at some point billionaires can't blame their shit going wrong on other people if they were the more capable ones and clearly felt they were more capable when they set out to do this?

It is ironic that school reform efforts focus so much on metrics to rate teachers and "hold them accountable." Yet, when the school reform efforts themselves fail horribly, they suddenly tell us that the metrics don't tell the whole story as they rush to find whatever scapegoat they can.

"Accountability for you, not for me" seems to be the motto of the movement.

Re: Why a German billionaire says that pledges like Mark Zuckerberg’s are really bad

#135

Post by shaftoe » Thu, Dec 03, 2015, 6:01 PM UTC

sophacles wrote: post #124

lloyddobbler wrote: post #15

> I find the US initiative highly problematic. You can write donations off in your taxes to a large degree in the USA. So the rich make a choice: Would I rather donate or pay taxes? The donors are taking the place of the state. That's unacceptable. Or flip that around - is Krämer's implied solution not a case of the state taking the place of the individual? Put another way, if you founded a company, created thousands…

Why should you get to ignore the state's role in creating the environment in which your actions were possible?

Because I can't walk up to a stranger, do something (for them or otherwise), and demand payment.

Why does anyone else?

Re: Why a German billionaire says that pledges like Mark Zuckerberg’s are really bad

#136

Post by HiLo » Thu, Dec 03, 2015, 6:01 PM UTC

merpnderp wrote: post #105

6stringmerc wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do find it rather disheartening that a tech inventor and a PhD in Biology are being looked to as legitimate critics and saviors of public education.

Makes sense as the PhD's and government "experts" in education gave us the unpopular and widely criticized No Child Left Behind and Common Core, which hasn't done anything to stem the flood of unprepared kids going to college and the work force.

Yes, I'm sure GWB staffed his cabinet with "experts." Yes.

Re: Why a German billionaire says that pledges like Mark Zuckerberg’s are really bad

#137

Post by HiLo » Thu, Dec 03, 2015, 6:02 PM UTC

thomnottom wrote: post #130

marknutter wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because the structure that enabled you to amass that amount of wealth is flawed, and disproportionately rewards "you" over the network that actually did much of the heavy lifting This thinking is so poisonous and destructive and pervasive that I'm starting to wonder if it is either due to some natural law of human nature or some grand conspiracy to destroy modern society. Businesses are not built on the charity of…

> Everyone is compensated in the building of a business, in exactly the amounts they demand to be compensated. No, they are compensated in what is agreed to by both sides - which is not necessarily fair or representative of the part they played in building the business.

Thank you for stating what the literature on this topic actually suggests.

Re: Why a German billionaire says that pledges like Mark Zuckerberg’s are really bad

#138

Post by anon4 » Thu, Dec 03, 2015, 6:03 PM UTC

HiLo wrote: post #36

bmmayer1 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"wouldn't it be better to have all this power be in the hands of the democratically chosen" This assumes the money in question belongs to the state to begin with, and we're merely deciding how it is to be allocated. That is not the case. This is not the rich deciding what to do with the public money, it's the rich deciding what to do with their own money. I think we would all agree, regardless of level of income, we…

"it's the rich deciding what to do with their own money." No, I wouldn't agree on that at all. That runs entirely counterproductive to what our society is built on. This is the arrogance people talk about - you think you know what is better for people than they do.

Each individual knows what's best for themselves and also what's best for the people, duh. And the more money you have the more you know what's bester.

Re: Why a German billionaire says that pledges like Mark Zuckerberg’s are really bad

#139

Post by Retra » Thu, Dec 03, 2015, 6:03 PM UTC

slavik81 wrote: post #95

HiLo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You take it as a given that the private sector is well-run and wise. Nobody is saying either solution is great. All it's saying is that: wouldn't it be better to have all this power be in the hands of the democratically chosen, versus billionaires who may or may not be making relevant investments? edit: Just downvotes, no response?

The reality is that the details of how money is spent are in the hands of bureaucrats. I trust the guy who wants to use his own money to build a legacy for himself. He has more motivation to get results than a government bureaucrat making decisions about spending someone else's money.

You trust the guy? Well, I don't. How about we vote on it.

Re: Why a German billionaire says that pledges like Mark Zuckerberg’s are really bad

#140

Post by eip » Thu, Dec 03, 2015, 6:04 PM UTC

applecore wrote: post #93

Afforess wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He said that having a few very wealthy people decide what were the most important causes was bad compared to having the democratically elected government decide. This sentence is really amusing to me, because our democratically elected government, at least at the congressional level, is nearly all wealthy millionaires. So either way, important causes are decided by the wealthy.

Your argument makes no sense: the people control everything in a democracy, literally, by voting for their representation in government.

"Choice is an illusion created between those with power and those without."