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PHP 7 Released

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Re: PHP 7 Released

#131

Post by reefoctopus »

jsjohnst wrote: post #113
trm42 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AR works nicely for simple basic queries but everything more advanced should be done with custom queries. That helps a lot :)

The issue is that the line between simple and advanced is blurry, especially for an inexperienced developer. Maybe someday we (Royal we of all software engineers who build tools other engineers use) will learn there's a limit to abstraction layers applicability and put hard breaks into the code when that happens. I guess one shouldn't complain, the more tools allow developers to shoot themselves in the foot and not f…

Simple: CRUD operations

Advanced: Everything else

Re: PHP 7 Released

#132

Post by y4mi »

mattmanser wrote: post #30
arien wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's great to point new developers to the right resources. Besides sane frameworks, there are some good starting/best practices guides to help (that are regularly updated), such as: http://www.phptherightway.com https://phpbestpractices.org Also, I would encourage them to look at different frameworks, not just one. It'll help if they later move onto other languages, as they'll be already exposed to different…

Is phptherightway up to date? I only ask as scanning it I see that it recommends IIS7 for production PHP on windows servers. Which I believe you could only get using an unpatched windows 2008 server?

while i cant comment on the validity of their advice, i can say with certainty that it is quite up to date. after all, the last change was just 2 weeks ago...

"LAST UPDATED: 2015-11-16 16:19:03 +0000" (right below their banner at the top)

Re: PHP 7 Released

#133

Post by acdha »

mgkimsal wrote: post #100
acdha wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with rejecting the elitist framing but … the web was decidedly not mostly static before PHP came along. Perl had many frameworks (e.g. PHP started as one), as did conventional languages like Java, Python, with deep server integration possible using things like mod_perl. There were also a bunch of web-specific dynamic platforms like Cold Fusion and classic ASP / me-too JSP. Finally, there was server-side JavaS…

PHP was easily one of the first to get some mainstream traction. I was using it in February '96, perhaps earlier. Classic ASP from MS was released in Dec 96, and didn't start making inroads (from my vantage point) until mid '97. I was stuck in '97 doing some odd front page weirdness (htc files? can't recall now) which were extremely limiting. At night, I'd go home and do PHP, and had an ecommerce system (horrible as…

I definitely remember that era as the age of Perl but I should note that my first database-driven web app was in 1996, using a beta Java servlet runner with DB/2 on OS/2.

I'm happy to report that I got better at making technology choices.

Re: PHP 7 Released

#134

Post by lghh »

djsumdog wrote: post #127
Scarblac wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wordpress alone runs 25%+ of all websites. PHP's time is clearly still now. I probably won't bother with PHP, but it can't hurt to keep my idea of what it's like up to date. It's only technology, no need to be fanatical about it.

Cobol is still in use. That doesn't make it good. PHP is a poorly written language. From comparisons to namespaces to other gotchas, it's just pigs guts. From the ground up, it's a badly designed language. Look up "Fractal of bad design" for a better understanding of why.

But Cobol isn't used by 25% of all websites. It's just a tool, one that learning will give you access to a large share of jobs on the market.

Plus, who cares if anyone learns Cobol? If they want to, there is not reason to stop them.

Re: PHP 7 Released

#135

Post by teh_klev »

mattmanser wrote: post #30
arien wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's great to point new developers to the right resources. Besides sane frameworks, there are some good starting/best practices guides to help (that are regularly updated), such as: http://www.phptherightway.com https://phpbestpractices.org Also, I would encourage them to look at different frameworks, not just one. It'll help if they later move onto other languages, as they'll be already exposed to different…

Is phptherightway up to date? I only ask as scanning it I see that it recommends IIS7 for production PHP on windows servers. Which I believe you could only get using an unpatched windows 2008 server?

I work for a shared hoster and can confirm that PHP works great on IIS6 (with FastCGI add-on installed) and IIS7+.

Re: PHP 7 Released

#136

Post by scient »

porker wrote: post #75
pc86 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Active Record Pattern is somehow controversial. What is controversial about AR?

> What is controversial about AR? How it represents rows as objects. How it makes people think about them. How it conflates modelling the domain with database structure. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=activerecord+vs+datamapper

Soooo one row of a collection represented as an object instance of a collection of instances is bad? Why?

Re: PHP 7 Released

#137

Post by Practicality »

lsaferite wrote: post #94

I was so excited when I saw this post. Then I realized it's another 'too early' post claiming the tag == release. It's not released until it happens on the PHP site. This is just a tag in the repo. Sure, it likely won't change now, but it could.

Indeed, the GA release date is tomorrow: https://wiki.php.net/todo/php70#timetable

Re: PHP 7 Released

#138

Post by claar »

sneak wrote: post #110
Scarblac wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wordpress alone runs 25%+ of all websites. PHP's time is clearly still now. I probably won't bother with PHP, but it can't hurt to keep my idea of what it's like up to date. It's only technology, no need to be fanatical about it.

Just because a lot of sites run it doesn't mean it's not crap. A lot of companies still host stuff on Windows like it's still 2002, as well. PHP has no place in modern development.

You're not only wrong, you're extremely rude. How many professional PHP developers do you estimate are in the world currently? "no place" indeed.

If you've truly taken the time to understand modern PHP and want to discuss its weaknesses, by all means proceed. Otherwise bashing the professional work of your peers is simply rude.

Re: PHP 7 Released

#139

Post by Practicality »

venomsnake wrote: post #13
RohithMeethal wrote: post #9

I wish every PHP developer would reread the docs and start using new features available instead of just continuing with what they know already just because it works. And of course if there was any way to remove all those old tutorials out there.

And every php developer would wish that suddenly all php in the world upgrades to v7. We are years away from 7 having a big penetration in the ecosystem. And years more till it hits enterprise.

We will be going live with v7 as soon as I test it on the dev servers, so probably this week. Not everyone is so slow.

Re: PHP 7 Released

#140

Post by acdha »

mei0Iesh wrote: post #83
acdha wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with rejecting the elitist framing but … the web was decidedly not mostly static before PHP came along. Perl had many frameworks (e.g. PHP started as one), as did conventional languages like Java, Python, with deep server integration possible using things like mod_perl. There were also a bunch of web-specific dynamic platforms like Cold Fusion and classic ASP / me-too JSP. Finally, there was server-side JavaS…

If you were a corporate/academic programmer at the time, or lucky enthusiast, you had access to more things. Most commoner folk stepping up to a local ISP shell from BBS did not have access to all kinds of goodies. There also was less formal education available, so even when technologies existed, without mainstream marketing and documentation, it simply wasn't accessible to the masses. Cold Fusion was proprietary sof…

Again, PHP made it better and easier but you aren't going to convince me that my direct experience didn't exist simply by repeating the same assertion.

Before PHP became widespread in the very late 90s there were many options for dynamic apps. I worked with ISPs which offered CGI or SSI even on cheap / free plans. Sure, it was ugly but a ton of people got what they needed done by going over to Matt's Script Archive and finding something they could hammer into shape. Before antique PHP apps, the security cliché was formmail.pl & a slew of long-forgotten guestbook / forum scripts.

I'm not saying that PHP didn't help considerably, only that it was very far from first. I remember having to make the case for using PHP 2 or 3 instead of many of those alternatives and it was based on cost and convenience, not the ability to do anything new.

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