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John McCain wants to outlaw encryption that the US government can't crack

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Re: John McCain wants to outlaw encryption that the US government can't crack

#131

Post by bsder »

dogma1138 wrote: post #28
an_account wrote: post #4

I love how Republicans believe that outlawing guns won't stop criminals from having guns while at the same time believing that outlawing encryption will keep criminals from using encryption. Encryption methods are far easier to transport and spread illegally than gun are.

>Encryption methods are far easier to transport and spread illegally than gun are. I won't go that far, I would say that getting a Gun in the US or even in Europe (especially since the eastern European and Balkan states have joined (officially or unofficially Schengen) is by far easier than setting up your own secure crypto from scratch. This isn't an argument in favor of banning crypto, just a hard simple truth that…

> Just look at how hard it was to get decent (for the time) encryption software when the US and most countries treated it as highly regulated commodities, and that was without an intentional crackdown on everyone who writes and distributes such software.

Um, I assure you that the US Government was quite serious about preventing encryption export.

You are also ignoring history. It was far harder to get an operating system image, period. It was more cost effective for me to drive to a store and buy a physical CD than download over an internet connection in 1996. The retail channel is fairly easy to control--nobody is going to spend the money to press CD's and publish something that will get them raided by US marshals.

This has changed. Dramatically. Between higher bandwidth and bittorrent, you probably couldn't stop the distribution on an OS image, nowadays.

Re: John McCain wants to outlaw encryption that the US government can't crack

#133

Post by baddox »

vezzy-fnord wrote: post #40
chrischen wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't Rand Paul a libertarian?

Only if you considerably stretch the definition. He's a moderate Republican closer to old school states' rights conservatism than neoconservatism, but certainly not a libertarian, though he does exploit the label to make himself look edgy.

He very explicitly uses textbook libertarian rhetoric on a regular basis.

Re: John McCain wants to outlaw encryption that the US government can't crack

#134

Post by petra »

dogma1138 wrote: post #28
an_account wrote: post #4

I love how Republicans believe that outlawing guns won't stop criminals from having guns while at the same time believing that outlawing encryption will keep criminals from using encryption. Encryption methods are far easier to transport and spread illegally than gun are.

>Encryption methods are far easier to transport and spread illegally than gun are. I won't go that far, I would say that getting a Gun in the US or even in Europe (especially since the eastern European and Balkan states have joined (officially or unofficially Schengen) is by far easier than setting up your own secure crypto from scratch. This isn't an argument in favor of banning crypto, just a hard simple truth that…

I agree. Also ,just the knowledge that someone is using illegal encryption(non backdoored) is very valuable from an intelligence standpoint since it directly points on highly suspicious people,and also reducing legal blocks towards their inquiry.

And it seems possible to build a system that detects such illegal usage ona web scale.

Re: John McCain wants to outlaw encryption that the US government can't crack

#135

Post by baddox »

Frondo wrote: post #92
tn13 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hillay clinton is probably pro-hide-that-hardisk. Rand Paul is libertarian and mostly anti-gov. We need more people like him in Washington.

Nah, what we need is fewer rich people and more women and people of color--a closer match to the actual demographics of the people of the country. I would no sooner put a anti-gov politician in charge than hire a manager who's opposed to the existence of the team he's managing.

I would hire a manager who's opposed to the existence of the team he's managing if I didn't like the team he's managing and I thought this was the only way to solve it.

Re: John McCain wants to outlaw encryption that the US government can't crack

#136

Post by delecti »

serge2k wrote: post #21
dev1n wrote: post #6

We really need to set an age limit on how old people can get while staying in office before being forced to retire. We already prevent people younger than 40 from running for President. Why should we let people older than 65 do it? What's the difference?

Do you really think he had a better understanding of encryption 15 years ago?

I would argue that in the last 15 years he has gotten further from the vanguard of encryption, purely by virtue of the field advancing.

I don't think an age limit makes sense though, as his knowledge of encryption is not likely to be any worse than the vast majority of the population anyway.

Re: John McCain wants to outlaw encryption that the US government can't crack

#137

Post by strayptr »

dogma1138 wrote: post #130
strayptr wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a variety of algorithms which are safe in a post-quantum crypto world. Developing and deploying them will take time, but they exist. Making them safe will take longer, but it will happen. The threat you describe sounds like a race. But in fact, it's more like a switch. Right now the world is pre-quantum. When the switch is flipped, to post-quantum, a lot of algorithms will break. But not all of them. See ht…

Today there won't be much issues, I'm talking about a reality in which your Government (doesn't matter if it's the US, UK, Germany or China) is not only not helping you to build strong crypto (which they always done so in the past), but actually is working against you. How easy would it to work on open encryption software if we'll have to revert to the Pre Bernstein V. United States era (which wasn't so long ago) and…

And I'm saying, yes, you're right. But have hope. That's something to watch out for going forward, but we can go forward.

This thread's article is interesting, because it's the first step toward a world you describe. But reason has a way of prevailing. Not always, but usually.

One thing that's missing now, that someone here might want to cook up, is a good explanation. The topic of crypto is difficult. Not just because it's hard like calculus, but because there are a lot of subtleties. Old analogies to locks and doors aren't really applicable. What we need is a way of highlighting what's going on, why people should care, and what they can do.

Re: John McCain wants to outlaw encryption that the US government can't crack

#138

Post by will_pseudonym »

cblock811 wrote: post #7

I swear the media has a bias too. So many articles are bashing encryption lately. I wish I could do more to fight misinformation and general ignorance than posting on my Facebook though. Ideas?

Contact your Senators and Representative! https://www.opencongress.org/people/zipcodelookup

Re: John McCain wants to outlaw encryption that the US government can't crack

#139

Post by daemin »

spin wrote: post #98
rodgerd wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are they also aware that the exact same technology is used to protect their online banking? To protect against attacks like the Sony hack? Do they know that there is a huge segment of the economy that relies on strong encryption to do business? I'm sure they are. The problem is, I suspect, more the delusion that if there are backdoors, only MURICA will be able to exploit them because GODDAMN GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE…

The movie companies and the record companies wanted DRM -- they were under the delusion that they could both control digital information while sharing digital information. So now Washington is suffering from a similar delusion: you can build encryption to keep criminals out of your banking website, but still allow the feds access to whatever they choose.

So then if a federal agent is/becomes a criminal does that mean they won't be able to access the back door then?

Re: John McCain wants to outlaw encryption that the US government can't crack

#140

Post by dogma1138 »

linkregister wrote: post #88
dogma1138 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenBSD cd image would give you absolutely nothing when it comes to defending against state level actors sorry. And you are assuming that in their proposed reality that would be as easily achievable as it is today, you'll be surprised how effective can a crackdown be once a government sets its mind to it.

I've yet to hear anything about state level actors surreptitiously accessing an OpenBSD system.

Are you claiming that OpenBSD never had or has exploits that the NSA could or can use to access systems running it? Because if so that would be a heck of a lofty claim.
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