One outcome of this interbreeding is that these animals have lost their fear of people, but they retain their predatory instincts, making them quite dangerous. There are coyotes in the northern part of Nova Scotia that have attacked lone hikers. A woman was killed, in fact a few years ago, and there have been numerous scary encounters in which the animal creeps closer and closer to a wary human, much like a predator…
Coyotes have only killed two people in North America in all of recorded history (and if you check recorded history for wolf attacks it goes back at least to the 1800s). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coyote_attacks_on_humans A 3 year old child in 1981 and a 19 year old woman in 2009. Both victims were alone at the time of their attacks. Coyotes killing humans is an exceedingly rare occurrence.
New species combining wolf, coyote, and dog emerges in eastern North America
131–140 of 146 posts
Re: New species combining wolf, coyote, and dog emerges in eastern North America
#132Somewhere on the Internet, a furry just gained yet another fursona. > LIKE some people who might rather not admit it, wolves faced with a scarcity of potential sexual partners are not beneath lowering their standards. Oddly appropriate. EDIT: Nevermind, looks like they have at least 3 years on this joke: https://www.furaffinity.net/view/9465519/
Re: New species combining wolf, coyote, and dog emerges in eastern North America
#133Somewhere on the Internet, a furry just gained yet another fursona. > LIKE some people who might rather not admit it, wolves faced with a scarcity of potential sexual partners are not beneath lowering their standards. Oddly appropriate. EDIT: Nevermind, looks like they have at least 3 years on this joke: https://www.furaffinity.net/view/9465519/
Let's just say that Furry Twitter is having lots of fun with this news story.
Re: New species combining wolf, coyote, and dog emerges in eastern North America
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, it is recent. We are evolutionary newcomers.
I don't think chimps can breed with humans however.
Re: New species combining wolf, coyote, and dog emerges in eastern North America
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If they can breed and produce fertile offspring, are they really different species? Species are defined more-or-less arbitrarily. It's essentially impossible to come up with a meaningful definition of "species" because of the nature of biology. Imagine a gigantic tree, beginning with the first organism billions of years ago, with every living thing that ever existed as a node. Now, for the sake of the thought exper…
We make this classification, so we can adjust the rules until our model fits reality at an acceptable level. So let's define species as groups of individual of a similar genotype. We were not able to define and measure genetic distances in the past, but now with the ability to read whole genomes, we can do just that. > sometimes hugely different species can interbreed and produce fertile offspring Then they are obvio…
How similar?
Consider the following: imagine that you assembled a gathering of all your ancestors in the male line for say, the past two million years. Let's say, for illustrative purposes, that the gap between each generation is twenty years. So you'd have 5 people to represent a century - you, your father, your grandfather, your great-grandfather, and your great-great grandfather. That makes 50 people per millennium, 500 people per ten thousand years, 5,000 people per hundred thousand years, and 50,000 people per million years. So two million years of ancestry gets you 100,000 people, the size of a small city, or about enough people to fit in the Rose Bowl stadium.
So really, not that many people in the grand scheme of things. Now line all those people up in order going all the way back to the first guy, who we'll just call Adam. The difference between Adam N and Adam N+1 is very small. There's no point at which you can say "Adam N is this species and Adam N+1 is that other species." But there's a hell of difference between you and Adam.
The same logic applies to life in general, the tree is just a lot bigger and messier and we're talking about distant cousins rather than ancestors, and some lines are extinct.
But going back to your proposed definition - similar genotype - we can have all kinds of bizarre situations. Say we require the genotype to be 99% similar. By this definition, we conclude that Adam M and N are the same species. We also come to the conclusion that Adam N and Adam O are the same species. But wait! Adam M and O are only 98% similar! What do we do - assign multiple species labels to the same individuals?
Species has proven a necessary and useful abstraction, but it nevertheless doesn't hold up well under scrutiny. That's fine, as long as we recognize its limitations.
> Then they are obviously not hugely different. Were we just comparing phenotypes when we decided to classify them as different species? Let's improve on that.
Genotypes certainly provide useful information, but they can also muddy the waters.
Assume that we take the definition of "any two organisms that can interbreed and produce fertile offspring are the same species" as our preferred definition. (This has its own problems: for example, did you know mules sometimes are fertile, just not usually? Did you know it's conceivable that humans and chimpanzees can interbreed?) It is entirely possible for A and B to be distantly related genetically, yet able to interbreed, while A and C are closely related and unable to interbreed. "Can interbreed" is not necessarily a proxy for genetic distance.
Re: New species combining wolf, coyote, and dog emerges in eastern North America
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your point about the rats is well taken. It does make for good click bait and over exposure serves multiple interests beyond simply informing the public. I worry about the homeless as a vulnerable population who is disproportionately threatened by wildlife in an urban setting. Whether it is from plague carrying fleas on rats running around an encampment or a group of coywolves or a mountain lion deciding that this pa…
Sure. My comment is different. "Homeless" humans managed pretty well against lions, tigers, and bears. I think it's the defenseless you're concerned about. A house is one sort of defense. So is a car. So is a homeless encampment. So are guns and dogs. Few homeless are defenseless in the way you mean. While some people with homes are still defenseless against the threats you are worried about. If you are concerned abo…
I think you make an excellent point vis-a-vis homeless vs defenseless. My exposure to plague warnings has primarily been in the county and state parks around the Bay Area. The primary vector being fleas per https://www.cdph.ca.gov/programs/vbds/Documents/PreventingVB...
We have also got a number of lion sightings/encounters although I could not find the 2014 or current data (http://www.dfg.ca.gov/wildlife/lion/trends.html)
And of course the linked article talking about Coywolves and relating to their lack of fear of humans.
My thesis is that human/wildlife encounters will increase as the populations of these various species increase in response to greater success in living in urban and suburban areas. And my conjecture is that as a result of increased encounters there will be more incidents where the defenseless are harmed. Have not yet thought of a good way to test that hypothesis yet.
And that has also lead to exposure to racoons and bears both of whom are willing to cross paths with humans in order to scavenge food or food scraps.
Re: New species combining wolf, coyote, and dog emerges in eastern North America
#137Re: New species combining wolf, coyote, and dog emerges in eastern North America
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
Coyotes have only killed two people in North America in all of recorded history (and if you check recorded history for wolf attacks it goes back at least to the 1800s). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coyote_attacks_on_humans A 3 year old child in 1981 and a 19 year old woman in 2009. Both victims were alone at the time of their attacks. Coyotes killing humans is an exceedingly rare occurrence.
You cannot make sense of an emerging phenomenon by looking at century old records of superficially similar phenomena. The 3 year old case sounds like an outlier, regular coyotes getting at an unprotected child. The case of the 19 year old may be the canary on the coal mine. A fully grown adult should have scared off the coyotes, but that's not how it happened. We should be asking what was different in this case and w…
I don't think we should be afraid, as the OP mentioned, of coyotes stalking our children in the parks because of one isolated incident.
Re: New species combining wolf, coyote, and dog emerges in eastern North America
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sharks kill humans annually. So do big cats. And snakes. What are we going to do? Shoot all these on sight? Predate to extinction (and not even for their nutritional value) those species that harm us in even the slightest way? I oppose that. No thanks. That's not the type of world I want to live in. I want to co-exist with these amazing creatures, not drive them to extinction, or only have them alive in captivity.
Many pathogens and parasites are amazing creatures. Do you take the same stance with those, or are you only in favor of charismatic megafauna roaming wild? From my point of view, lions, crocodiles, wolves, etc... they're basically microencephalized sociopaths. It would be better if they never harmed any creature capable of suffering. That means either eliminating them or drastically modifying them. Granted, this is c…
Wrong idea; and the campaigns against predators in journals, just because this sells newspapers, are becoming a big problem in itself.
Anybody people honestly worried by animal and human suffering should definitely welcome predators. Yes, is true that coywolves had unfortunately killed 1 women doing footing some years ago in a national park. One.
But maybe we should be worried also about people killed in car crashes or bleeding in pain before to be rescued. Maybe should be worried also for the more than 100.000 men and women suffering each year in hospitals, with brain inflamation, recurrent fever, chills, diarrhea. Or for pregnant women having miscarriages and stillbirths.
... Yes, people probably should be afraid, very afraid by the beautiful herbivores instead, responsibles of all of this.
When I think in a real microencephalized sociopath that runs blindly trying to grasp any human at sight (children, women and men), something evil and terrifying, that lurks hidden out of your house waiting patiently for your children, I think in deer ticks.
So if you think that to eliminate the predators are a good idea, think again. You will have much more deer ticks around instead (and much more human and animal suffering as consequence).
Re: New species combining wolf, coyote, and dog emerges in eastern North America
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have a child, but think about it this way. Every creature killed was the child of some creature. You're saying it's our children versus their children, all or nothing? But they're non-human animals so tough luck to them. We can do better I believe. What I'm asking is are we asserting that humanity has claimed the _entire_ globe as its habitat? Where do all the other species go that because of their nature run into…
I'm certainly not advocating killing everything that moves and I certainly agree that there are too many humans on earth. I have no solution for that except stop making babies. However when there are dangerous animals around humans I will certainly not blame someone for protecting his / her family, especially in the case of an invasive specie like the coywolf that is not in danger of extinction.
Examples: increased urbanisation, cutting meat consumption to increase the amount of land for crops, increased shared use of transport, assuming hydrocarbons and peat-bogs are semi-scarce non-renewable resources then transition away from them as sources of energy to renewables, travel less by using telecommunication, and so on.