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GravityLight: Generate light with gravity

gravitylight.org

121–130 of 132 posts

Re: GravityLight: Generate light with gravity

#121
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fusion persists because gravity forces hydrogen sufficiently close together.

By that logic my car is powered by steel, because that's what keeps the fuel-air mixture sufficiently close together.

It's common to say a car is powered by fuel. It's also common to say a car is powered by its engine. The latter is indeed is a device that brings fuel and air close together (and does some more important things). It's less common, but certainly not wrong, to say a car is powered by combustion.

Similarly, I think saying both 'the sun is powered by gravity', 'the sun is powered by hydrogen' and 'the sun is powered by fusion' is reasonable.

Re: GravityLight: Generate light with gravity

#122
post #66
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Don't both have their places?" It's more that this "invention" has been bouncing around for a while and gets an unwarranted amount of attention for the amount of energy it can provide. Weird to think, but solar isn't "sexy" in the same way.

Maybe that "unwarranted amount of attention" is because it has a different set of requirement for use than solar which makes it particularly attractive. Considering only the energy efficiency and not how it could or would actually be used by the target consumers seems shortsighted to me. It may yield a the most efficient product, but it may not yield the most effective product.

Yeah, sure, but that set of requirements is, I'd argue anyway, probably more appropriately served by something clockwork or something crank-based that charges a battery.

Re: GravityLight: Generate light with gravity

#123
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're playing that game: - Human muscles get energy from food. - Food is or gets its energy from plants. - Plants get energy from the Sun. - The Sun's energy comes from gravity-forced fusion. So gravity :)

So by your logic fossil fuel is solar energy.

Checkout this explanation of fire by Richard Feynman - its a really eye opening perspective

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1pIYI5JQLE

He explains the light of a fire is just the light of the Sun, it's just been stored in the wood

Re: GravityLight: Generate light with gravity

#124
post #29
post #27

Years ago there was a similar 'potential energy to electricity' buzz and I was initially quite excited. Then I did the math on how much energy is actually available (even at 100% efficiency) from such a scheme. Spoiler - it's minuscule. E = mass x 9.81 x height So a 10kg mass at 2 meters can (@ 100% efficiency) provide 196 joules of energy. A modern cell phone battery has about 25000 joules. To charge said phone woul…

Hmm, that's actually pretty doable if coupled with pedal power (you'd either charge directly with a dynamo in this case or pump water to a higher elevation to store as potential energy). Back of the envelope math says you could do it quite easily in 15 minutes which isn't bad at all especially given the fact that you can't shove power into the battery anywhere near that fast. Granted, this works much better with some…

Pedal-powered generators already exist. Using one to charge a battery is better than this gravity-energy-storage gimmick in every imaginable respect, but they still are not used much, because electricity is not scarce. (If you can afford to buy a gimmicky generator, you can afford to buy a real one instead and the real ones are cheaper and better.)

Re: GravityLight: Generate light with gravity

#125
post #58

I implore people to support something far more practical like http://www.solar-aid.org/ than this. Solar lights are many times more thermodynamically efficient, cheaper to make, smaller and much more robust (no moving parts!). This "lifting weights" thing is a silly gimmick. A lifted weight stores a miniscule amount of energy compared to a battery that's been charged by the sun.

Your comment is a mixture of the irrelevant and the incorrect.

First, you’re mistaken about the robustness of batteries. Batteries tend to have a very short lifetime, measured in months to years, and they can typically only be recharged a few hundred times. Generators have longer lifetimes, measured in generations to centuries. Batteries are usually a lot cheaper than generators, so it might make sense, as you say, to just replace the batteries a few times. But how much does a 100mW generator cost? Amazon is selling an “X Factor” brand 3000mW generator along with accessories for US$17.56, so I suspect that the retail cost of a 100mW generator would be about US$1. (Little 1-watt brushless DC motors do cost about US$1 to US$3. I can’t find any 0.1-watt DC motors.) By comparison, the retail cost of an 800mAh AAA NiMH battery (3700 J, 1000 charges, thus lifetime about 3–5 years, Tenergy Centura brand) is about US$1.50 to US$2.

Second, it is incorrect to say, “A lifted weight stores a miniscule amount of energy compared to a battery,” except according to irrelevant figures of merit. Batteries do indeed have orders of magnitude higher energy density per kilogram and per liter, about 400kJ/kg and 1MJ/ℓ, while a bag of sand that has been lifted two meters only stores 20 J/kg and something like 20 J/ℓ. But those are not relevant figures of merit here. The target audience has tens of thousands of liters of available storage space, even in the worst slums, and can store tons of material, and the target application only needs to store 120 J. Reducing the weight of the stored energy from 6 kg and 6 ℓ down to 300mg and 0.12 mℓ (or, more realistically, 4g and 2mℓ, since you need to store more than 20' of energy) is not needed to replace a kerosene lamp; it provides you with a flashlight. Not to say that flashlights and solar lights aren’t useful, but if this is cheaper than a flashlight, maybe it’s useful anyway. Solar lights and rechargeable flashlights cost about US$6 to US$10 at retail today, which is a significant amount of money to a lot of people.

It’s true but irrelevant to say that lifting a weight by hand is not particularly thermodynamically efficient. It’s incorrect (but still irrelevant!) to say that solar lights are more thermodynamically efficient. Lifting weight is about 25% efficient, due to the inefficiency of your own muscles. (Generators are typically better than 90% thermodynamically efficient.) This is substantially more thermodynamically efficient than solar lights, which lose 85% of the sunlight on input and another 50% or so in the battery. If you can get the energy from somewhere else, rather than muscle power, then the weight is many times more thermodynamically efficient.

The efficiency question is irrelevant because we’re talking about 120 joules of energy for 20 minutes of light, which is an amount of energy that costs US$0.000003 if you have an actual power grid, or 0.03 grams of carbohydrate if you’re powering your 25%-efficient muscles (between one and two grains of rice). The only people who worry about conserving the energy in individual grains of rice are people currently experiencing a famine, mentally insane people, and commenters on Hacker News.

The one thing in your comment that might be true and relevant is the statement that solar lights are cheaper to make, because we don’t know how much the final retail cost of these Gravitylight gizmos will be. However, it seems implausible that they are many times cheaper to make. It seems likely that the vast majority of the cost in either case will be non-electromechanical components like the plastic housing, the gear train, glass or plastic to protect the solar cells, marketing, and so on, so the two solutions are likely to be almost exactly equal in cost. One will be portable but need to be left out in the yard to charge; the other will be heavy and nonportable, but you’ll be able to charge it in the middle of the night.

Re: GravityLight: Generate light with gravity

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can use it to read and it is free.

It's not free. It's a very inefficient way of converting food to human energy to humans lifting weights that in turn power the lights. If this is targeted at very poor people, food isn't cheap for them.

The energy involved here is between one and two grains of rice.

Re: GravityLight: Generate light with gravity

#127

I was rather hoping this would be a hawking radiation method, i.e. actually generating light using gravity

You and I both. This isn't even carbon neutral. I mean technically this is burning carbon molecules.

burning carbon molecules sourced from photosynthesis. Carbon positive, but the fuel generation is carbon negative, so it balances out.

Re: GravityLight: Generate light with gravity

#128
post #41

what is the deep difference between this mechanism and a simple spring / coil?

Precisely the same question I have as well. Especially given that the energy you could store in a spring or coil could be much more, and you are not limited by one's lifting capacity or maximum height. Anyone have an idea?

Re: GravityLight: Generate light with gravity

#129
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't both have their places? There are benefits to having a power source that is a) not dependent on a resource that is not available at all times and b) does not require a charging period. It's sort of like people in the late 19th century saying you shouldn't support the development of automobiles, because boats are much more efficient way to move cargo. While true, it does nothing to address the fact that in some…

exactly boats are still used when an automobile can't. Just the same as in low light areas, gravity is your only option. Plus I think gravity is probably a cheaper solution to offer, as the weight can be used from local resources while a solar panel is an added cost.

Gravity is not the only option.

This isn't a boat with oars. This is a boat where you're given some wooden spoons.

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