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blog.samaltman.com

121–130 of 287 posts

Re: Energy

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am one of the UPower founders. There are two big stories here that most people don't know yet: 1) that a fast reactor can be waste-negative, I.e. transform existing waste to energy. 2) a fast reactor destroys the long lived waste- instead of trying to store waste for a hundred thousand years it's on the order of a hundred. Both of these are critically important for existing waste but also having an emission free en…

UPower is a fast reactor? If so that's pretty encouraging!

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Re: Energy

#122
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gigawatt-scale nuclear reactors take a long time. Ycombinator is investing in factory-produced reactors that fit in a truck. There are quite a few other companies working on small factory-produced reactors. Solar with batteries is a lot more expensive than solar alone. Solar is doing well right now with natural gas backup, but a lot of us would like to avoid fossil entirely. Solar with nuclear backup might be a great…

Confused: if you have nuclear, skip the solar and save money?

Depends if nuclear includes decommissioning and clean-up costs.

Do you really want lakes full of residual waste for the next few tens of millennia?

The UK currently has no idea what to do with a lot of its waste. So it's simply left to rust and ferment in water - not a good outcome.

Sustainable intermittency turns out to be something of a myth anyway. Intermittency effects across Europe turn out to be negligible.

So instead of building nukes, you can spend the money on mixed-mode sustainables and a hugely improved distribution grid and get a cleaner and more reliable outcome overall.

You can also make sustainables distributed, and run them on a domestic scale as well as an industrial one.

PV roof installations have worked well in Germany and are starting to work well in the UK, even though neither location is known for being sunny.

You'd get much better results in the sunnier parts of the US.

Re: Energy

#123

Years ago, the story I understood was that renewables couldn't scale up fast enough to sufficiently mitigate climate change, and nuclear was the only answer. Recently, I've read that renewables have scaled up much faster than expected. Does anyone know the current story? Can renewables scale up fast enough? Also, does the availability problem (i.e., renewables not being available when the sun/wind are not) prevent th…

Solar photovoltaic has dropped in cost significantly which is awesome for many applications. The problem for an individual or the grid for renewable intermittents is the consistency: the true cost is the cost not just of generation but generation plus storage (or backup).

Batteries have not had the step change in cost vs deliverable, and the question of effective and not carbon intensive recycling of batteries and most e waste remains. If solar is x cents a kWh, must add cost of storage or fossil backup generation to make sense in both terms of cost as well as carbon.

For instance, the expected cost per kWh of the Powerwall is about 35c/kWh which must be added to cost of generation and the maximum amount of time for delivering that power back at peak discharge is only a few hours. Leaves some development still to do for power in the morning after the night, or even for a cloudy day. Solar thermal has run into similar reliability problems as solar photovoltaic.

Re: Energy

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> nuclear backup That wouldn't work with current nuclear reactors, whose startup / shutdown sequences take hours. Typically, the grid operator runs nuclear plants at nearly 100% 24/7 (so called "baseload") due to this. I'd be curious how truck-sized reactors work and whether or not you could operate them as load-followers rather than baseload. That would make them extremely attractive for replacing natural gas peaker…

My point mainly is that if there's more demand when solar produces more energy, then you can pretty much run the nuclear plants all the time and get a decent balance. But I suspect the small reactors will be more flexible. Molten salt reactors are supposed to load-follow automatically with a lag of thirty seconds or so. (And of course with small fusion reactors it wouldn't be a problem at all.)

Solar generation is less predictable, and the grid needs an energy source that is capable of quickly adjusting to the current fluctuation in demand of consumers.

Re: Energy

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So easy to find that it can't even be linked to on the web by two people that claim it exists?

I still think there are huge issues with nuclear that need to be solved but nothing Sam said was controversial; Cost: http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/aeo/electricity_generation.cfm -- on an LCOE basis, Advanced Nuclear is cheaper than everything but natural gas and that's entirely due to CapEx costs to build new plants -- which are what the modular nuclear companies that Sam's joining are working on fixing. Density: htt…

So, comparing the report in your link for cost, Solar PV capital cost is a bit more expensive than "Advanced Nuclear" capital cost. However, the ongoing maintenance costs for solar PV are less than 50% of the ongoing maintenance costs for Advanced Nuclear. In fact, the additional (over Solar PV), annual maintenance costs for Advanced Nuclear are about 17% of the entire capital costs. After just a few years, Solar PV will be saving massive amounts of cost over Advanced Nuclear, just in maintenance.

This seems to at least be partially taken into account in the "Total LCOE" numbers (sorry, but this report doesn't seem to have much as far as exactly how these numbers are calculated). Without subsidies, Solar PV is about 30% higher. However, when you look more closely at the actual ranges behind the averages that are the primarily cited data, you'll find that the Total LCOE estimate ranges for Advanced Nuclear and Solar PV actually overlap. The "minimum" Solar PV estimate is 97.8 and the Advanced Nuclear "maximum" is 101.0.

The claim that atomic energy has major advantages over solar is not borne out in this EIA report. In fact, the report seems to show that solar is highly competitive with almost every generation source and actually has a huge advantage in ongoing maintenance costs, being practically at the bottom.

I haven't investigated the other links yet, since the first one didn't seem to pan out.

Re: Energy

#126
post #13

Slightly off-topic, but going to UPower's site shows nothing but a somewhat sparse wintery forest. Perhaps I've too much sci-fi on the brain, but it made me think of a nuclear winter.

Haha, wow. :) Thanks for the comment. It was meant to signify the communities in the far north or arctic that currently are reliant on very expensive and dirty diesel... Our webpage is under construction probably to be put up in about a week. You can definitely feel free to ask any questions and would appreciate your thoughts on the new one.

Re: Energy

#127
post #19

I always wondered why more energy wasn't generated from nuclear. On paper it seems like a great energy source. Kudos to Sam for putting not just his money, but his time where his mouth is. If only the rest of the internet could do the same!

> On paper it seems like a great energy source. On paper the waste issue is still not solved. And the risks are still large (yes I know, coal, gas and oil has it's drawbacks too).

Waste isn't a significant issue for either of the ycombinator projects. One is mostly-aneutronic fusion, the other is a fast reactor. Fast reactors produce about 1% as much waste and it goes back to the radioactivity of the original ore in a couple centuries.

Fusion has no significant risk. With fission it depends on the design; I don't know much about UPower, but the IFR, another small fast reactor, demonstrated very impressive safety.

Re: Energy

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Confused: if you have nuclear, skip the solar and save money?

Depends if nuclear includes decommissioning and clean-up costs. Do you really want lakes full of residual waste for the next few tens of millennia? The UK currently has no idea what to do with a lot of its waste. So it's simply left to rust and ferment in water - not a good outcome. Sustainable intermittency turns out to be something of a myth anyway. Intermittency effects across Europe turn out to be negligible. So…

Long-term waste isn't a factor for UPower or Helion.

Re: Energy

#129
post #72

I wonder what environmental impact truly large-scale solar energy will have. In that it is moving energy away from where it would usually fall on the ground/plants, thus reducing heat, less rising air, less photosynthesis etc. Perhaps additionally aid global cooling? Though that energy will mostly end up as heat anyway. (Of course it's far better for the environment than present coal/petrol/gas/wood, and their energy…

As a sanity check, the earth gets ~1366 W/m2 * (6,371 km) ^2 * pi = 1.7e17 watts * 24h/day * 365.2425day/year ~= 1.5e21Wh/year ~= 1,500,000,000 terawatt hours/year. Humans use 155,505 terawatt-hour / year or ~ 1/10,000th of that much energy. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_energy_consumption ) Further, it's all (99.99%) going to get released so net impact is going to be very local. PS: In the end the real chang…

Hurricanes also produce Terawatts of energy. The question is the way the energy is turned into electricity, and how it's stored or backed up because an economy requires reliable electricity

I'm a supporter of solar, and trying to get it on my house.

But I also did some back of the envelope calculations that showed, just if we had enough Powerwalls to backup US peak demand for one hour it would require 10x the global annual mining production of lithium. And that's just one hour. And that doesn't include the electricity production.

It's generally estimated that US power, with good transmission, would require enough solar panels to cover the entire state of Massachusetts. I think you're right that it isn't the land cover that would have much effect, after all buildings and roads already cover a lot of land. I think it's sheer material production.

Mining is almost entirely powered by fossils, it has to be. And so is most transport. And so is recycling of metals. So the energy density of an energy source really is a zero sum game. If it takes a millionth the material for one source versus the other, that adds up.

Then in maintenance, solar farms are truly "farms"- they require a lot of water to wash away dust to operate optimally. A states' worth of water is significant.

Then in recycling at end of life, and this is why I got so excited about nuclear as a somewhat hippie child growing up around oil companies in Oklahoma, solar is going to require a lot of energy to recycle, while nuclear can produce energy in recycling its fuel.

The main reality check, to me, is: what is the energy density of this energy, and if emitting, how much pollution? Coal is far more energy dense than wind, which is why humans evolved from windmills and wood to coal. But it's so polluting which is why we are all working towards better sources.

Re: Energy

#130

Distributed generation is where we should invest. Energy independence for the individual. Individual solar panels and batteries, personal windmills, personal reactors, etc. Imagine all the savings in infrastructure for energy transportation and reinvestment in other sectors. Imagine all the possibilities if people could switch their energy generation model as simple as buying a new product and installing it at home.…

True energy independence goes both ways, which very few people are willing to accept.

People will install solar panels and enjoy not writing a check to the utility every month. But if their home battery breaks during a heat wave, they're not going to sit in an un-air-conditioned house and and think, "well at least I'm independent." No, they're going to expect the grid to send them power when they need it.

So while independent generation is a good idea, it's not likely to result in infrastructure savings. In fact the kind of smart grid that would be needed to deal with such widely varying local loads would almost certainly be more expensive than just maintaining what we've got.

It's worth remembering that electric generation started out as a very local and independent thing. Central generation won because it was cheaper and more reliable--despite the seemingly obvious losses and expenses of such a huge network.

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