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What happens when you stop relying on resumes

blog.alinelerner.com

121–130 of 195 posts

Re: What happens when you stop relying on resumes

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

some famous hobbyists that went on to form companis around their hobby: Ford, Edison, etc

The list of hobbyists who didn't go on to form companies around their hobby is orders of magnitude longer than the list of those who did. So it really isn't that useful as a metric.

Yea, survival bias. http://youarenotsosmart.com/2013/05/23/survivorship-bias/

Re: What happens when you stop relying on resumes

#122
Everyone should just give up on trying every sort of new angle to "identify great developers". It's purely subjective, there is no meaningful universal definition.

It comes down to whether or not the people doing the recruiting all have the same subjective opinion.

Re: What happens when you stop relying on resumes

#123

I screened and interviewed a lot of developers in my last position and it stood out to me that résumé quality seemed to be inversely correlated with the candidate's actual ability. I distinctly remember the absolute best developers that I hired also had the most atrociously bad résumés. The candidates with résumés that literally almost knocked me off my chair failed miserably at the most basic programming task.

Frankly I cannot see an expert in anything other than marketing sitting down and crafting their resume. "Appearance starts where performance ends." Let me illustrate: Growth Engineer One line Resume: "I was employee 7 at Snapchat when we had 6 engineers and 400,000 users. During my tenure as the only growth engineer, our userbase grew to 10 million users over the next 6 months." SEO resume: "I joined XYZ when it was…

I am not really sure what you're illustrating with these examples. But I'm guessing you're saying that anybody worth hiring will have a stellar accomplishment where you can look them up by name.

This is really not the case.

I've found that some people's greatest accomplishments are trade secrets that they can't show you. Some people's greatest accomplishments are in hobbies you don't quite understand. Some people are good at things even though they don't have a heroic narrative of great accomplishments building up to their job application.

Meanwhile, people who come in to an interview boasting "Look at this! I did this!" are often just taking credit for what their co-workers did.

Re: What happens when you stop relying on resumes

#124

When people abandoned resumes like this it's because there is some corruption in their hiring process and lesser skilled management is attempting to hire down for political control. Their only goal is to go through the motions and stay employed. Some people don't want experts. They want to have the illusion of a functioning business unit. People with no formal training that have projects that sound impressive to the…

In my observation, most software companies are not technology/engineering companies in the sense you've used above. They have an application that provides value to an industry, or to a group of civilians, but which didn't require any particularly deep insights into new algorithms or into low-level code.

This. Most problem domains (and the software written to solve them) are not particularly 'sexy'. Most programmers aren't elite hackers either, but of those there are a lot who just get the job done. What I've found is that it's difficult for solid, but not sexy, programmers to get noticed.

Re: What happens when you stop relying on resumes

#125
post #66
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of "difficult-to-work-with" questions do you ask? I'd like to filter out these people but I'm not sure what sorts of questions to ask to suss that out.

Basically I goad them into complaining about past bad work experiences and then pay close attention for subtle clues that may indicate that they are systemically disrespectful or unwilling to compromise on things that don't seem worth fighting for. Were they bothered by people, situations or outcomes? Tell me about the most frustrating time when you needed a thing, or consensus on a thing, and you had to go through w…

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to ask with that last question. I can't tell if you're saying "you're out if you behave badly" or "you're out if you complain about other people people behaving badly"; "Nobody here is in the business of policing behavior and nobody wants to be" comes across as the latter.

Re: What happens when you stop relying on resumes

#127
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically I goad them into complaining about past bad work experiences and then pay close attention for subtle clues that may indicate that they are systemically disrespectful or unwilling to compromise on things that don't seem worth fighting for. Were they bothered by people, situations or outcomes? Tell me about the most frustrating time when you needed a thing, or consensus on a thing, and you had to go through w…

> unwilling to compromise on things that don't seem worth fighting for It's quite possible the interviewee thinks the item is worth fighting, but you don't because of different principles/axioms. Are you looking for a justification in this case?

On the positive side, you might have someone complaining bitterly because the codebase they worked on had twelve different implementations of string/buffer classes and was resistant to any attempt to unify them. Or someone complaining that they pushed for continuous integration and never checking in anything that broke the build, but people kept bypassing code review and breaking things anyway. Or that there was a standard release process in place for hotfixes, but some Nth-level manager handling a customer escalation would demand a one-off release for their customer without going through the normal process. A well-explained complaint like that would suggest that the interviewee pushes for good processes and solid engineering practices.

On the negative side, you might have someone complaining at length about a bikeshed issue (see http://blue.bikeshed.com/), or complaining about processes they had to follow that sound reasonable to you (for instance, "one change per commit", or "don't break the build"). Or someone complaining bitterly that they don't get to use technologies invented five minutes ago.

It's a lot easier to get information about what people stand for and care about by finding out what they fight against.

Re: What happens when you stop relying on resumes

#128

When people abandoned resumes like this it's because there is some corruption in their hiring process and lesser skilled management is attempting to hire down for political control. Their only goal is to go through the motions and stay employed. Some people don't want experts. They want to have the illusion of a functioning business unit. People with no formal training that have projects that sound impressive to the…

>When you have layperson managers judging what is a strong candidate and what is important technology, you are going to get hobbyists skilled in popular tech and your company is going to get worthless hobbyist tech for your organization.

Management is the problem! Why doesn't management recognize me? I worked hard for my degree and I deserve the rewards. Fuck the fucking people that 'live for this shit'.

Where's their degree? I am trained in . I'm qualified. I deserve the job.

Re: What happens when you stop relying on resumes

#129
I do something very similar in my hiring processes on odesk. I ask each candidates opinion on something (articles usually). This allows me to eliminate 90% of applicants. Then I review the 10 applicants who's answers weren't complete gibberish and give the best 2 or 3 a programming task. Works pretty well, I've only ired one guy turned out to be inadequate for the role (out of about 20 hires over the past 4 years for php dev work).

Re: What happens when you stop relying on resumes

#130
post #58
post #57

The writer claims to "rely heavily on data," but the punchline of the article is purely anecdotal that 1 person at 1 company got hired, was good and would have been overlooked. I am sure there were also many candidates with good resumes who were now overlooked. This article starts out with an air of science and ends with a completely unproven conclusion. While I do agree in my gut that resumes are not an amazing filt…

Shortly after she says she's come to "rely heavily on data", she says "This post, however, is going to be a bit of a departure. Rather than making broad, sweeping conclusions based on a lot of data points, I’m going to narrow in on one story that happened". I think she did a great job of doing exactly what she set out to do, and since this is just one anecdote, any qualitative or numerical data she presents won't be…

My bad on that -- I definitely misread the beginning. After rereading, she presents the beginning and end fairly based on an anecdote and not data.

I'd still love to know why the company didn't switch to this full throttle.

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