Live data from Hacker News

Going undercover as a sex worker

aljazeera.com

121–130 of 236 posts

Re: Going undercover as a sex worker

#121
> 'Going undercover as a sex worker'

This article is about human trafficking, not sex work. The title makes as much sense as 'Going undercover as a construction worker' and then writing about a construction worker kept as a slave in Dubai.

Re: Going undercover as a sex worker

#122
post #76
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with that rape itself is natural. And there are many instances in which even consenting sex is more exciting because it contains rape fantasies like calling the other one nasty names, hurting each other, bondage games etc. Stories like 50 shades of grey show that it is not just a male instinct to rape but also a female instead to be conquered. Power and sex are hard to separate. Education and empathy is a rea…

Human trafficking is, essentially, modern slavery. As far as I know the two biggest sources of victims are: 1. people (frequently children, especially girls and women) being "sold" into slavery out of financial desperation or pressure from organized crime. 2. emigrants being tricked by traffickers, thinking they're buying a ticket to freedom in a better place but actually accruing "debt" they are then forced to "pay…

> Human trafficking is, essentially, modern slavery.

Almost all "human trafficking" is willing migrants paying someone to help them cross a border (into US, EU, etc).

Re: Going undercover as a sex worker

#123

I worked with the author, Mimi, at UC Berkeley and she took enormous risks in the Middle East and Moldovia for the sake of getting her story. Several others did as well including my two collegues who spent two years locked up in Iran after being lured across the border while reporting in Iraq. Funding for investigative journalism has all but completely dried up, due to disruption for Silicon Valley and other factors.…

Maybe I overlooked something in the story, but I don't quite understand how she did it? For example she describes three girls locked into a backroom of a family, living on a couple of bananas a day. How did she get that story? I don't think she posed as one of those girls, nor does it sound as if those girls would ever go out?

She posed as a prostitute sometimes, not only risky, but also subjected her to sexual harassment by the very male colleagues whose help she sought when going undercover. Check out this 10min video if you want to know how she did it http://www.vice.com/video/i-posed-as-a-prostitute-in-a-turki...

Re: Going undercover as a sex worker

#124
post #80
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By your definition, everything that ever happens is natuaral. That makes the word completely meaningless.

Yes, but what gave you the idea that "natural" equals "good"? I'm using the term entirely objectively. Of course everything that happens in nature is "natural". That's what the word means. The distinction I'm making should be obvious: a behaviour that happens in other, closely-related animals, especially if it happens quite frequently, and especially if it is "beneficial" in natural selection (like lions killing thei…

You're trying to be reasonable and logical, which is good. But I think you err in looking to animals to define what is natural behavior for humans. Doing that collapses the enormous gulf which lies between animals and humans. And it also generalizes across all humans.

Instead, I think it's better to consider what is "natural" for certain societies and cultures. For example, most people in average, relatively prosperous Western countries (and many Eastern ones) would not "naturally" treat another human being the way the "clients" in the article do. A few sociopaths, but that's a very small percentage of the population.

Why? I think it's pretty simple: it's how people are raised. Children who are raised by loving parents, taught to treat others well, disciplined when they don't, grow up to be adults who wouldn't dream of doing such a thing. But a child who is raised by abusive parents, who witnesses the parents treating others like animals, may grow up and emulate that behavior. If they are taught that it's acceptable to treat other humans like animals and property, then that is what they will do.

Nature vs. nurture is a bit of a false dichotomy. No one grows up in a vacuum. People are shaped by family, society, culture. People tend to emulate what they see. Getting people to change their behavior and values by reasoning with them is very difficult, and impossible with some people.

This is an element that seems sorely lacking in the article: there's no mention of cultural and societal values. She mentions corruption in police and judicial systems, and she calls for unilateral, cross-border action--which would effectively be going to war. She doesn't recognize that you can't fix those problems by going to war, because war doesn't rewrite societal values. (On the other hand, one might point to Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan and post-WWII as counter-examples, but I think that is a bit different: it was a world war, and the nations were occupied for many years afterwards, and a government had arose which lead the people in evil ways. The cultures weren't necessarily innately evil in their values.)

The reason human trafficking flourishes in these places and police and judicial corruption allow it to continue is that the societal values are corrupt. There's an element of oppressive governments not accurately reflecting the values of the people as well, but still, the government isn't forcing these atrocities to occur.

And to bring it back to where we started: by defining "natural" by what seems natural to animals, you perpetuate the problem. Animals have no concept of right and wrong. Human trafficking and slavery are wrong because they are wrong, because they are evil. You might say that that's circular reasoning, but if we agree on that basic morality, regardless of where it comes from, then it stands.

And therefore, the reason these other places continue to allow it is because of defective moral values in a large percentage of the population.

That isn't a popular thing to say, because it's "judgmental." Well, yes, I do judge that that behavior is abhorrent, and that the people engaging in it and permitting it are acting abhorrently.

And if you want to argue that it's not a result of defective cultural values, you'll have to do better than an "animal nature"-based argument, because that would logically erase cultural differences. And, no, a few outliers in cultures that largely don't have the same problem do not wash away the distinctions. Some cultures do have better moral values than others. (If you disagree with this, you're a moral relativist, and there's no basis for discussing it.)

Re: Going undercover as a sex worker

#125
post #3
post #2

Much like with drugs, the best way to reduce human trafficking and abusive prostitution would be to fully legalize and regulate sex work. In countries where prostitution is accepted and legal, it's safer for both the sex workers and the customers, with less risk of disease and abuse. Sex workers are treated humanely and not condemned. Society in general benefits too, through properly paid taxes, lower crime rates, an…

I've heard that the human trafficking numbers increase with legal prostitution since volume increases also, even if the percentage is lower. The Netherlands has huge problems with drug smuggling and human trafficking despite both being largely legal there. While I don't disagree that prostitution should be legal, it's a bit more complicated than the utopia you just painted.

The Netherlands have some of the biggest harbors in Europe. So all kinds of goods go through here, including drugs.

Re: Going undercover as a sex worker

#126

Problems like this one, and other that rank as high in crimes against humanity, make me wish we had a global citizenship and effort, that everyone should have the right for safe passage into any place in the world. Global rights of free passage would be a goal for all people under extreme opression and ilegality, from North Korea, ISIS, slavery, sex trafficking, people trafficking. If people could leave where they ar…

Global citizenship requires global government which comes with its own set of problems. What if the majority favored a certain behavior, such as this one? Then it would be globally legal. Maybe it's not globally favored now--that doesn't mean it will always be this way.

Compartmentalization is better than globalization. Humans are fallible and often evil. That is not going to change. The best thing to do is compartmentalize people and government to prevent cancerous evil from affecting everyone.

Anything else is wishful thinking. History shows that evil's not going anywhere, and contemporary events do as well.

Re: Going undercover as a sex worker

#127
post #29

When reading works like this one I tend to find three stories being merged into one. It focuses on slavery where most of the evil aspects of humans tend to come out, as in order to reduce a human person into something that can be traded, everything that gives that person a social context must be torn down. This is where the "break down" period comes from and it's a common theme in everything from the African slave tr…

do you have a source for coal mine work having a life expectancy of months?

Re: Going undercover as a sex worker

#128
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I the only one puzzled by this comment?

You shouldn't be. I'm a Muslim and I've dealt with numerous such individuals painting Muslims as backward and illiterate. Muslims are the scapegoat of this generation, as the Jews, Blacks were before them. Their entire worldview is constructed of an us vs. them ideology rather than understanding that we're fundamentally the same regardless of our ethnicity/faiths/inclinations/etc.

You are being deceptive. Islam explicitly commands its followers to deceive others.

Compare the Islamic State to Jews. Compare the Islamic State to blacks. There is no such comparison. This "scapegoat" victim card is a lie. Jews are not decapitating and immolating. Blacks are not decapitating and immolating. Yet Muslims from around the world are leaving their homes to join the Islamic State in their unspeakable evil, behaviors that might very generously be described as "backward."

Islam explicitly paints an us-vs.-them picture. Islam explicitly commands its followers to kidnap, rape, enslave, and kill unbelievers. These are simple facts, the truth.

Re: Going undercover as a sex worker

#129
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Human trafficking is, essentially, modern slavery. As far as I know the two biggest sources of victims are: 1. people (frequently children, especially girls and women) being "sold" into slavery out of financial desperation or pressure from organized crime. 2. emigrants being tricked by traffickers, thinking they're buying a ticket to freedom in a better place but actually accruing "debt" they are then forced to "pay…

> Human trafficking is, essentially, modern slavery. Almost all "human trafficking" is willing migrants paying someone to help them cross a border (into US, EU, etc).

Sure about that? I thought the term refers to people who are brought against their will or by lie to another country.

Definition from google:

the illegal movement of people, typically for the purposes of forced labour or commercial sexual exploitation.

Re: Going undercover as a sex worker

#130
post #16

The big elephant in the room that it is politically incorrect to discuss: human trafficking happens because of Muslims and because of Islam. Recognizing this fact will help fight it, for example by closing Europe to Muslims.

Oh noes it's all teh muslamics fault! I don't know how much of an idiot you have to be to fall for this right wing fear mongering bullshit. It's not politically incorrect - it's just incorrect!

Let's have a simple quiz:

There is a certain group of people in a certain part of the world today that are kidnapping, raping, enslaving, decapitating, immolating, and otherwise mutilating and murdering innocent people. They are attracting followers from around the world.

Question: this group is universally comprised of members of which religion?

Question: this group has explicitly declared the rest of the world to be its enemy, and declared its intention to destroy those who oppose it. True or false?

Scenario:

Group A: "We're going to kill you all!"

Group B: "Group A intends to kill us all!"

Group C: "Group B is spouting fear-mongering bullshit."

Question: Which group is lying?

Post reply on HN